Interested in gout

I received a list of the generic drugs Walmart is selling (in certain
states) for $4 a month today. The list has all our mainstream
treatment drugs on it: allopurinol, indomethacin, and colchicine. I
don't take any of these, and I hope by being careful I won't have to,
but it is good to know they are available to me in Utah for very cheap
prices. I suspect that eventually Walmart will spread this program to
all of the U.S.
Chase

I have read several posts here in the past where people blamed an
attack on mushrooms. Mushrooms are also in the "high purine" food lists
that have been distributed around here. But I read in the digest this
morning that there is research that "high purine" plant food are not a
cause of gout. What is the consensus on this?
Chase Kimball

Hi All:
I have been on Allopurinol for almost 2 years now with no incidence of
a gout attack. My question to you all is: if I reduce my pill to one
every other day will I induce a gout attack? And will I ever be able
to come off this medicine?
Thanks,
Cheryl

Indeed, reducing your weight, particularly quickly, can cause gout to
rear its ugly head. Uric acid is stored in your fatty tissue. It is
soluble in fat and as you loose the fat by burning it off, what is left
is uric acid and it has to go somewhere. As your body tries to deal
with the excess uric acid you are dumping onto it through weight loss,
that uric acid ends up saturating your system and you get a gout
attack.
If you are on allo you have a lot more margin for weight loss because
there is more capacity to remove urate since your body is making a lot
less uric acid and therefore it has more capacity to deal with the
extra uric acid being dumped on your system.
In any event that uric acid is there, in the fat, waiting for you. .
Allopurinol does nothing at all to the uric acid that is already in
your body.

Allopurinol reduces uric acid production not stops it. Uric Acid is needed in the blood at all times without it our DNA would be destroyed and we would die. OJ helps clear uric acid from the kidneys which will help prevent stones and allow for more uric acid to be removed from the blood. Diet can prevent gout as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

Mon Sep 4, 7:03 PM ET
MONDAY, Sept. 4 (HealthDay News) -- An independent study finds that
orange juice beats lemonade and other citrus fruit juices in helping
to keep kidney stones at bay.
Experts have long known that potassium citrate -- found in citrus
juice -- can slow stone formation in people with a history of the
condition.
But this study, by a team from the University of Texas Southwestern
Medical Center at Dallas, found that other components can affect a
juice's ability to prevent stones.
Thirteen volunteers (some with a history of kidney stones and some
without) took part in the multi-phase trial, which was funded by the U.S.
National Institutes of Health. For one week, participants drank
distilled water, for another week orange juice, and then lemonade for
another week. There was a three-week interval between each of these weeks.
During each phase, the participants drank 13 ounces of orange juice,
lemonade or distilled water three times a day with meals. They were
also put on a low-calcium, low-oxalate diet, which also helps cut
stone formation.
The study found that orange juice increased levels of citrate in the
urine and reduced the crystallization of uric acid and calcium
oxalate, the most common components of kidney stones. Lemonade did not
increase citrate levels.
"One reason might be the different constituents of various beverages,"
study lead author Dr. Clarita Odvina, assistant professor of internal
medicine at the Charles and Jane Pak Center for Mineral Metabolism and
Clinical Research, said in a prepared statement.
Odvina noted that the citrate in orange and grapefruit is accompanied
by a potassium ion while the citrate in lemonade and cranberry juice
is accompanied by a hydrogen ion. While hydrogen ions counteract the
beneficial effects of high citrate content, potassium ions do not.
The study is available online and was expected to be published in the
Oct. 26 print issue of the Clinical Journal of the American Society of
Nephrology.

BOSTON - March 10, 2004 - A new study has clarified the role of diet in the risk of developing gout - the most common form of inflammatory arthritis in men. By taking a comprehensive look at a broad range of dietary factors, the report confirms the suspicion that consumption of purine-rich meats and seafood increases the risk of gout. It also determines that purine-rich vegetables and overall protein intake do not raise risk. Appearing in the March 11 New England Journal of Medicine, the study also finds that intake of dairy products, particularly low-fat, may be protective against gout.
"The association of purine-rich foods with gout had long been suspected but never proven," says Hyon Choi, MD, DrPH, of the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) Rheumatology Unit, the paper's lead author. "Any contribution of protein intake to risk was uncertain, and this is the first evidence that dairy products can be strongly protective." The report is part of the Health Professionals Follow-up Study, which is based at the Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH).
A painful condition affecting more than 5 million adults in the U.S., gout is caused by deposits of uric acid in connective tissue, often in joints of the feet or ankles, that lead to inflammatory arthritis. Symptoms include swelling, redness, stiffness, and severe pain. Although attacks of gout can subside in a few days, repeated attacks can cause permanent joint damage, and the disease often results in substantial disability, occupational limitations and frequent medical care. Treatment includes the pain-relieving drugs called NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatories) and for more serious outbreaks, corticosteroid drugs like prednisone. Most patients with gout eventually require long-term treatment with medications that lower blood uric acid levels.
Because uric acid is formed by the breakdown of purines - compounds found in all human tissues and in many foods - gout patients have long been advised to avoid purine-rich foods. And since many animal products are rich in purines, avoidance of animal proteins has also been recommended. But the association of these foods with the risk of gout was never confirmed by prospective studies.
Initiated in 1986, the Health Professionals Follow-up Study has gathered information regarding the relationship between dietary factors and several illnesses from more than 50,000 men employed in the health professions. Every two years participants complete questionnaires regarding their diseases and health-related topics like smoking and exercise, and every four years the questionnaires also collect comprehensive dietary information.
The current investigation began with 47,000 men who did not report a history of gout at the study's outset. Participants who subsequently reported developing gout were surveyed to verify that they met standard criteria for the disorder, confirming a diagnosis of gout in 730 men by 1998. The researchers then analyzed dietary information that all study participants provided in 1986, 1990 and 1994 to determine how diet related to their risk for gout.
The study results confirmed that consumption of meat - particularly beef, pork and lamb - significantly increases the risk of gout and that consumption of all types of seafood tended to carry an even higher risk. Notably, no increased risk was seen with consumption of purine-rich vegetables - which include peas, beans, mushrooms, cauliflower and spinach - or with overall protein intake. The study actually found a potential protective effect from vegetable and dairy proteins. The protective impact of dairy products had been suggested by an earlier study finding that a dairy-free diet could increase uric acid in the blood, and the current report confirmed that increased consumption of low-fat dairy products significantly reduced the risk of gout.
Choi notes that this study's results are probably most relevant to individuals who have a history of gout or are at increased risk because of family history or other factors. "Dietary manipulation and behavioral modification to reduce risk of gout may have a much more substantial impact than currently believed. Reducing red meat consumption may be recommended because it also has been associated with such problems as colon cancer and diabetes. At the same time, healthy foods such as vegetables do not need to be restricted. Recommendations for seafood or dairy intake should be individualized with a physician or dietitian, taking into account their potential impact on any other health issues," he explains. Choi is an instructor in Medicine at Harvard Medical School.

While this study examined only men, in whom gout is more common, the investigators strongly suspect that the results would also apply to women. Future studies to investigate whether reducing meat and seafood consumption or increasing low-fat dairy intake actually prevents outbreaks in gout patients could be valuable, the researchers say.
Choi's co-authors include senior author Gary Curhan, MD, ScD, of HSPH and the Channing Laboratory at Brigham and Women's Hospital (BWH), Karen Atkinson, MD, MPH, of the MGH Rheumatology Unit; and Elizabeth Karlson, MD, and Walter Willett, MD, DrPH, of BWH and HSPH. The study was supported by grants from the National Institutes of Health and TAP Pharmaceuticals.

.

[INLINE]
_,_._,___

"It would be helpful to stick to the facts and not become so
inflammatory if you think someone is misstating their experiences."
Sent by S R <jcfcycle@...
Well said and thank you.

I've been lurking on the group for some time to gain insight into
gout so I may help my husband who's been suffering for a while now.
We're taking into consideration everything we've learned about
possible trigger foods, foods high in purines, and drinking lots of
spring water.
Beyond this, I'm very curious about the possibility of a therapeutic
dose of natural thyroid hormone in helping to resolve gout. A little
background...
I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, an autoimmune thyroid disorder. I
was only diagnosed four months ago, but believe I've had it for at
least 15 years. Since this diagnosis I've been a voracious consumer
of as much information as possible regarding thyroid disorders. One
of the best books I've read is Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected
Illness written by Broda Barnes, MD, whose 30+-year career in
medicine provided some of the best, long-term studies of the effects
of an underactive thyroid and benefits of thyroid therapy. Gout is
mentioned several times. The two conditions often coexist, and
hypothyroidism may even account for the onset in many instances.
So much treatment for gout is aimed at reducing uric acid blood
levels, but I've found no adequate answer to why the level is high
in the first place--genetics is not an adequate answer. There is no
gout in my husband's family tree, but I believe subclinical
hypothyroidism is rife.
I cajoled our NP into testing my husband's thyroid, and her response
was everything is normal (I believe his TSH is too high). I've heard
too many stories of people whose thyroid tests are "normal" and it's
dismissed (myself included). I've also read many cases where once
put on thyroid hormone therapy, symptoms resolve. My husband has
many hypothyroid symptoms (weight gain, fatigue, sleep problems,
depression, high cholesterol, high triglycerides, heavy eyelids, low
basal body temp, and I believe gout).
Today we started him on a therapeutic trial of Armour Thyroid
(natural desiccated porcine thyroid), 1 grain (60 mgs). He's had no
adverse response (e.g., heart palps). He's also going to start
taking iodine in the form of Iodoral. I'm iodine deficient and we've
had the same diet for the last 16+ years.
I just thought I'd throw this out there. I'll report back in a
couple weeks with any results or lack thereof. -Jill

Hi i'm new to the group and I am 56 yrs old.I have suffered with gout
on and off for 30 yrs.I live in the uk and was first told to take allo
300mg every day but to stop if I had an attack and take indomethacin
until it settled then take allo + indo then just allo.Most GP's and
consultants have said this.Six months ago I saw a rheumatologist
because I had not worked for 5 mths because of gout/arthritis.He
explained the "sponge" theory (which I had never heard before) and
told me to take allo 300mg every day even if I had an attack.This I
did but I am no better and in fact get worse and longer attacks.Has
anybody else had the same advice?

I copied this from one of the articles in the "Files"
section of the group. It's not very specific, but
will give you some guidelines as to what foods to
avoid for chronic gout sufferers:
THE PURINE CONTENT OF FOODS AND BEVERAGES:
THESE ARE HIGH PURINE and best to avoid:
Liver, kidney, anchovies, sardines, herring, mussels,
bacon, codfish, scallops, trout, haddock, veal,
venison, turkey, alcoholic beverages.
MODERATE PURINE content -- may eat occasionally:
Asparagus, beef, bouillon, chicken, crab, duck, ham,
kidney beans, lentils, lima beans, mushrooms, lobster,
oysters, pork, shrimp, spinach.
[Note: I'd go real easy on the spinach -- it's a gout
trigger big-time for me.]
LOW PURINE CONTENT -- NO limitation:
Carbonated beverages, coffee, fruits, breads, grains,
macaroni, cheese, eggs, milk products, sugar, tomatoes
and green vegetables (including lettuce and excluding
vegetables listed above).
[NOTE: One should probably go easy on coffee, and
tea, as they are known to dehydrate a person, and
dehydration can be a gout trigger.]
Somebody posted a better list than this, though, a
while back. I will see if I can find it: I may have
saved it. If so, I will re-post it. I am a firm
believer that gout *can* be controlled, once you know
what triggers it (for you -- it can be different for
each) and if you drink LOTS of water every day. In
five years, I have had TWO attacks only (which I
contribute to careful control of my diet *most* of the
time).
--Diane

I've never heard of gout manifesting as back pain.
Ever. It's nearly always in the joints that Chris
listed. For me, it starts in my big toe and then
"moves" up to my ankle. At the worst of the attack,
my whole ankle can be very swollen and stiff.
--Diane

I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried Ultram
(prescription non-narcotic pain reliever) for gout. I
took Ultram for the rather severe pain I had from a
jaw condition (TMD), and it was the only thing that
completely killed the pain. It was like a miracle.
Worked far, far better than the Vicodin, and nearly no
side effects (unlike the Vicodin, which made me feel
extremely spaced-out).
It is possible to buy Ultram without a prescription,
on the internet, too. I have several times; just said
it was for a chronic TMD condition and they mailed it
to me overnight mail. Very very expensive that way,
though; better to buy it with a prescription from your
doctor.
Also, Ultram is relatively non-addictive (unlike
Vicodin), but if you take it regularly they do
recommend that you taper off of it rather than just
stop taking it cold turkey. I took it on and off for
about three-four months. Then my TMD condition
cleared up for good, thank goodness.
--Diane

Hello, My husband has gout. I have a few questions. He is in pain
now and isn't really up to researching online. I asked the doctor a
few questions, but everyone knows they never have enough time to
answer all the questions.
My husband gets attacks about 1 to 3 times a year, they last about 2 -
3 weeks, most of the time 2 weeks, but this last one is 3 weeks.
His parents both had gout. There doesn't seem to be any food that
causes the attacks. He gets red and bruised on different parts of
his feet. His gout seems to be getting more and more painful.
- What kind of pain management techniques have worked for different
people? Cold? Heat? Epson salt soak? Rubbing? Ointment? ETC?
The doctor just gave my husband Ibuprofen for the pain.
- Are there other pain meds he can take?
- Is it possible that there is no food causing this? That it is
solely genetic?
- Is rice a trigger?
- How expensive is the preventative medications? Do they stop them
or make them less often or less painful? Are they guaranteed to work?
- Are there any homeopathic or natural things we can do for gout?
Anyway, I just have so many questions. He is in so much pain, it
just breaks my heart. :(

Hi,
I just joined (or perhaps rejoined) this group. I've had gout for 10
or 20 years. My attacks haven't seemed as bad as many on groups like
this describe, but my attacks are coming much more frequently
recently. Seems like every two or three weeks and they're lasting
longer. I'm not entirely sure what's changed that might have caused
it, and of course, that worries me.
The last time I was moved to google gout, I came across a blood uric
acid meter that's available for sale in England. That was three or so
years ago. I'm a diabetic, so testing my blood is not only routine,
but something I like to do to gauge how I'm doing .... so testing my
blood for uric acid has quite a bit of appeal to me. I've been
bouncing back and forth between foot pain and colchicine-caused
diarrhea, and I'm getting tired of that merry-go-round. It's tempting
to think actually knowing my UA levels might help.
Three years ago, there didn't seem to be anyone who had tried the uric
acid meter, and I was wondering if anyone had had experience with it
by now.
No, I'm not a shill. The meter's expensive (about $120 US plus $60
for 25 test strips) and it's not for sale in the US, just the UK as
far as I can tell. And I don't even know if the meter is accurate.
So, no, I'm not a shill.
But even still, I'm wondering if anybody knows anything about it. I
couldn't find much when I googled the newsgroups or the net.
Edd

Is there a list of foods high in alkaline?

Our (gout) diet is being fallowed to a T, I hope! Lots of cranberry juice, frozen and dried cherries, ibuprofen round the clock, and acidophiles pills twice a day.

He was staying off his foot }no choice really{ He was feeling much better yesterday, so we decided to get groceries. Of course he refused to ride one of those carts and walked the whole time, SO today hes hurting again!

Does that mean it will flair up again??

He also likes it when I massage it gently and I was wondering if I could be doing more harm then good. Also would he benefit from soaking his foot in hot or cold water? A friend suggested soaking in Epson salts, said it may help the swelling.

I just do not want to make it worse. Hes afraid it will not get better!!

Thanks AGAIN for all the information

[INLINE] Bonnie Young [INLINE]
I feel like I've been in a coma for twenty years
and I'm just now waking up.

http://community.webshots.com/user/byoung41
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Y1048551657

Cranberries are NOT good for gout is because they raise acidic level of the urine. The lower pH (acidic) the urine is the less uric acid which is (NH2)2CO) acids are removed by the kidneys from the blood supply. Uric acid is urea ((NH2)2CO which is a nitrogen based acid cranberry is hydrogen based. Orange Juice helps remove uric acid from the kidneys because it raises the pH of the urine causing it to be more alkaline.

No Cranberry it is bad to drink while under a gout attack. Cold followed by hot soaking is best. The cold reduces swelling and the hot gets the circulation going to move out the uric acid crystals out of the joint. The swelling inhibits good blood flow so it is important to try to reduce the swelling.

Cranberries are good for gout is because they raise acidic level of the urine. The lower pH (acidic) the urine is the less uric acid which is (NH2)2CO) acids are removed by the kidneys from the blood supply. Uric acid is urea ((NH2)2CO which is a nitrogen based acid cranberry is hydrogen based. Orange Juice helps remove uric acid from the kidneys because it raises the pH of the urine causing it to be more alkaline.

Extremely Alkaline Forming Foods - pH 8.5 to 9.0:
Lemons 1, Watermelon 2, 8.5 Agar Agar 3, Cantaloupe, Cayenne (Capsicum) 4, Dried dates & figs, Kelp, Karengo, Kudzu root, Limes, Mango, Melons, Papaya, Parsley 5, Seedless grapes (sweet), Watercress, Seaweed
Moderate Alkaline - pH 7.5 to 8.0
Apples (sweet), Apricots, Alfalfa sprouts Arrowroot, Avocados, Bananas (ripe), Berries, Carrots, Celery, Currants, Dates & figs (fresh), Garlic , Gooseberry, Grapes (less sweet), Grapefruit, Guavas, Herbs (leafy green), Lettuce (leafy green), Nectarine, Peaches (sweet), Pears (less sweet), Peas (fresh sweet), Persimmon, Pumpkin (sweet), Sea salt , Spinach, Apples (sour), Bamboo shoots, Beans (fresh green), Beets, Bell Pepper, Broccoli, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Carob , Daikon, Ginger (fresh), Grapes (sour), Kale, Kohlrabi, Lettuce (pale green), Oranges, Parsnip, Peaches (less sweet), Peas (less sweet), Potatoes & skin, Pumpkin (less sweet), Raspberry, Sapote, Strawberry, Squash , Sweet corn (fresh), Tamari , Turnip, Sour Dairy
Slightly Alkaline to Neutral pH 7.0
Almonds , Artichokes (Jerusalem), Barley-Malt (sweetener-Bronner), Brown Rice Syrup, Brussel Sprouts, Cherries, Coconut (fresh), Cucumbers, Egg plant, Honey (raw), Leeks, Miso, Okra, Olives ripe , Onions, Pickles (home made with brown rice vinegar), Radish, Sea salt , Spices , Taro, Tomatoes (sweet), Vinegar (sweet brown rice), Water Chestnut, Amaranth, Artichoke (globe), Chestnuts (dry roasted), Egg yolks (soft cooked), Goat's milk and whey (raw) , Horseradish, Mayonnaise (home made), Millet, Olive oil, Quinoa, Rhubarb, Sesame seeds (whole) , Soy beans (dry), Sprouted grains , Tempeh, Tofu, Tomatoes (less sweet)

Is there a list of foods high in alkaline?

Our (gout) diet is being fallowed to a T, I hope! Lots of cranberry juice, frozen and dried cherries, ibuprofen round the clock, and acidophiles pills twice a day.

He was staying off his foot }no choice really{ He was feeling much better yesterday, so we decided to get groceries. Of course he refused to ride one of those carts and walked the whole time, SO today hes hurting again!

Does that mean it will flair up again??
He also likes it when I massage it gently and I was wondering if I could be doing more harm then good. Also would he benefit from soaking his foot in hot or cold water? A friend suggested soaking in Epson salts, said it may help the swelling.
I just do not want to make it worse. Hes afraid it will not get better!!

Thanks AGAIN for all the information

[INLINE] Bonnie Young [INLINE]
I feel like I've been in a coma for twenty years
and I'm just now waking up.

http://community.webshots.com/user/byoung41
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Y1048551657

Does or Has anyone use Home PH test kits to use to control their
Gout. BY observing their alkaline acid? If so please explain. I
just order them, It seems to make sense to control your PH balance to
eliminate or minimize gout attacks
Tyler

Hi all....
I just joined last night--and have been fascinated with reading as
many of the posts as I could--starting with the first 300-400 or so
from when the group began to the most recent 100 or so.
Background on me? I'm a male, 5'2", 160lbs, and 51 years old. Have
two kids--son, 23 married with a kid and daughter 20, living on her
own and going to college. And I seemingly have gout. AND IT HURTS! *ouch*
My wife and I met in college--where we were both getting trained to be
school teachers... but now she works as an office admin for a dental
office and I'm a technical editor-writer. We both spend our days at
work sitting on our butts in front of a computer. Not much room for
exercise (I also commute 2-hours one-way each day--4-hours total...
mostly by train.. but sometimes I am required to drive in).
When the kids were younger, we helped with their soccer teams and then
later with their karate school... in fact, karate seemed like so much
fun, that "dear-old-dad" decided to sign up and join them (they were
already a few belts ahead of him by that time). For about 3 years, I
worked out with them and worked up a tremendous sweat every day... and
yes, I did increase my water intake--but perhaps not enough.
For the first three months of taking karate (after not having had much
physical exercise for almost 20+ years), every night I'd have to take
a hot shower, pop an aspirin or two, and slather on the Bengay or
Absorbine Jr. before collapsing in bed... even then, the next morning
I struggled to get out of bed because it seemed like every muscle in
my body was being ripped apart.... as the day wore on, the pain would
be reduced to a minor throb...and after work, I'd trudge off to the
dojo (karate studio) for another session of sado-masochism.
Three years later, I was able to go to karate at night after work and
come home, take a shower, and get up in the morning without much pain.
I had lost about 20 pounds and was sort of proud that I had managed to
get rid of much of my *tummy*.
Then, about three years ago, one day I woke up and my big toe and the
ball of my foot hurt. I wondered if I had jammed up my foot the night
before during karate practice (we had been sparring). I managed to
get to work, but by the end of the day, my foot was throbbing. The
next day, my toe and foot hurt so much that I seriously thought I had
broken something--and I called in sick and stayed on the couch--thank
goodness it was a Friday.
For some strange reason, I had also heard about gout and wondered if
that was a possibility (I was a biology and chemistry major in
college--so the study of weird nutritional-deficiency diseases such as
scurvy, goiter, pellegra, and gout had come up a few times in my
coursework). So, I did some online research on Gout--and found the
suggestions for cherries (lots of 'em)--and while I was laid up on the
couch, my wife took off for the store and bought a few pounds of black
and Bing cherries.... I laid on the couch and gnoshed on those all
day and drank lots of water ... by the next day, things were feeling
better. By Monday, I was able to go back to work--although the foot
was still a bit tender.
Well... since then, I've changed jobs a bunch of times--and I now have
a longer commute and I'm not taking karate any more (the kids have
their black belts and my job schedule and finances prevented me from
continuing). I've unfortunately gained back the 20 pounds that I was
so proud of loosing. My job is more stressful with idiotic and
unreasonable deadlines... and when I come home from work--my wife is
exhausted as well--so we usually go out to eat.
This past week, we most likely ate a bunch of the *trigger
foods*--namely, on Tuesday I had Russian Poroshkies (chicken and
mushroom), Wednesday, my wife and I ate at a buffet (and I went for
the prime-rib and shrimps), Thursday night we ate at a Oriental
Seafood place--had the shrimp, scallop, crab, and calimari stew, and
Friday we went to a Mexican Place--where I had a combo plate of a beef
enchilada, pork burrito, refried beans, and to top it off a beer.
Yeah, I know--any one of those meals would have *done it*...
Saturday morning, my *knee* was sore--but because I thought gout only
affected the *foot* and *toes* and also because I've always had "bad
knees" (from sadistic PE teachers in junior high and high school).. I
thought I had maybe jammed it up a bit when I was helping my wife move
furniture in the living room to make room for my daughter's stuff
(she's moving into a new apartment). I took some aspirin to help with
the *soreness*.
Sunday morning, the pain was more intense--and I began to suspect gout
again.. (although it wasn't something I was really expecting). I
helped some service folks with putting in a new stove and range in our
kitchen and I continued with moving some furniture (I know, I should
have been resting and drinking a bunch of water)... Cherries aren't
in season anymore... but my wife found some dried cherries and some
dried blueberries as well as some apple cider and apples... and
started to nibble on those that evening.
Monday morning, I got up at my usual 5am and decided *not* to take the
train--and I drove in to work (60 miles, 1-1/2 to 2 hours one way).
It seemed that it would be easier to get in and out of my truck than
to take the train and deal with walking across parking lots climbing
in and out of the train, and then climbing in and out of the shuttle
busses. Also, taking the truck allowed me to bring a large grocery
bag filled with the apple juice, the cherries, and the blueberries.
The guys at work teased me all day about my *limp*... and the fact
that I had to use the elevator to get to my second floor office. By
the end of the day, my leg was really hurting and I could barely
manage to get down to the parking lot and over to my car. I had to
grab my pant leg to lift my leg into the truck--and bending the left
knee just a tad to get the leg in the cab made me want to scream. I
sat in the car for a while with the door closed and to allow my head
to clear a bit before starting to head home. When I got home, my knee
hurt so much that I had to lie across the truck's bench seat and inch
my way out the door without bending my leg. Then I had to hobble up
the driveway up to the house. Aaargh!
Once I got in the house, my wife realized that I was not in good
shape, so she made arrangements to take a day off from her dental
office and called to set up an appointment with a doctor the next
morning. We both hit the sack early... I was exhausted...
Tuesday morning, however, the pain was unlike *ANY* knee injury I had
ever experienced. When tried to get out of bed, I bent my knee over
the edge of the bed, and the pain was EXCRUCIATING! I think my wife
thought that I had gone nuts. Unfortunately, when I get this kind of
pain (and I'm at home where it's not making a public scene), I don't
feel any apprehension to letting out a scream when the pain hits...
When I got up to go to the bathroom, I bent my knee--and the pain
almost made me pass out. I struggled to get to the bathroom--and my
wife was just looking shocked. We had some crutches left over from
when my wife sprained her ankle--so I sort of used those--but I
reflexively bend my left knee when I use them--so the pain continues...
I sort of slipped on a sweater over my T-shirt and pulled on (very
gently) my pants. My wife helped me with getting my socks and shoes
on. Then we had to make it out to our van (getting into the sliding
door seemed a better option than climbing into the truck).
Unfortunately, I inadvertently bent my knee while climbing into the
van.. the pain was so bad that I just laid on the floor of the van
while my wife drove us to the doctor's office.
At the doctor's office, my wife had them wheel out a wheelchair for
me... Thank God they didn't ask me to get on an examination table!
They took my blood pressure and pulse and then after discussing my
symptoms with the doctor and his examining my knee, the doctor wrote
out prescriptions--for Allopurinol 300mg, Colchicine 0.6mg, and
Indomethacin 25mg. He also asked for me to get an X-ray of the knee
and get a blood test and urinalysis. (I haven't had a *baseline*
checkup in quite a while--so I guess that's good, too, eh?)
Anyway... The pain was so bad Tuesday--that we called the doctor again
on Wednesday to see if a more powerful pain reliever could be
prescribed. The doctor prescribed Vicoden.. it works seemingly as
well as the Indomethacin--not sure, though, because it's still painful
with the same intensity anyway. <sigh
So... yesterday I stayed home, except for a run to the medical center
for a blood test and the urinalysis. My wife managed to get me a
wheelchair--because I can marginally get around better than with
crutches without bending my knee. Unfortunately, our house isn't
built for the "handicapped"--I can't get the wheelchair in the bedroom
or any of the bathrooms... so I have to lock the brakes on the thing
and then cling to the walls and countertops to get to the bathroom or
to get to the bedroom. Last night the pain was so bad that I slept in
the living room on the couch--closer and straight-shot to the bathroom.
Last night I searched online for information on gout... and among a

Hubby just had his worst attack in 20 years. He is 48. It came first
in the elbow and then went into the wrist. He thought he had hurt
himself horsing around with the kids as he's not had gout in the
elbow/wrist before. It ended in his right wrist, and doesn't seem to
be leaving. He takes the daily meds when an attack flairs up, but not
all of the time. They have been closer and closer together and more
debilitating. He was not mindful of his diet up until this attack.
Now, he has been eating like a rabbit and the pain in the right wrist
lingers after 6 weeks. Any suggestions??? He has been eating a LB of
frozen cherries a day since this started and taking supplements. What
has worked for all of you??? We have the guy on the internet that
claims Baking Soda in water cured his gout. Our daughter is moving
this weekend, and I didn't realize how damaged my husbands wrist was,
cause he couldn't help at all after 6 weeks, and we are not talking
about a 'cry-baby' or someone who's trying to take it easy. Any
suggetions???

Does anyone know,used or heard of Medrol Dosepak. If so please tell
me of your experience. I am currently havind what I call a major Gout
attack first in years and Indocin didnt have any affect so I was put
on this Medrol Dosepak
Thanks
Tyler
P.S Just as you thought life was good again a Major gout attack occurs
LOL

It's been about 10 months since I was diagnosed with gout. Since
then, I've completely revamped my eating patterns, lost 40 pounds,
gotten on allopurinol. I was feeling pretty good about conquering
this thing; it's been several months since I've had an attack.
Well, today, my doctor tells me I'm pre-diabetic. (Happy
Halloween!) I'm now beginning my research to determine exactly what
that means. Roughly speaking, it seems to mean that I'm likely
heading to full-fledge diabetes unless I fix things. Diet and exercise.
Dang it, I though I *was* eating right; that's how I managed to lose
40 pounds and get to a healthy weight. A quick look at the American
Diabetes Association's "Making Healthy Food Choices" page ( http://
www.diabetes.org/diabetes-prevention/nutrition/
healthyfoodchoices.jsp ) tells me I'm right: almost everything on
that list I've either been doing, or it's directly against the gout
recommendations. "Include dried beans and lentils into your meals."
"Include fish in your meals 2-3 times a week." I wish.
I have no idea how to weigh the diabetes guidelines against the gout
guidelines. I guess some of the gout guidelines I have followed a
little more strictly than necessary; I've found it easier to cut out
meat and fish entirely rather than have the two or three ounces
allowed per day. Maybe I should introduce that in. Maybe the
allopurinol will protect me enough that I can pretty much ignore the
gout guidelines and just follow the diabetic ones. I don't know. I
dread the thought of finding out by experimenting and see what drives
shards of glass into my toe. I suspect it's going to come down to that.
Are there any other people who are fighting both gout and diabetic
tendencies? Any words of wisdom?
Thanks,
Terry

Thanks Terry that was very helpful. Good job co moderator!!

I was wondering how helpful cherry juice and tablets are?

Also read about apple cider vinegar {yuck} how is it taken??

Beside having gout my guy also suffers from heart burn so we have to be double careful with foods!! argh!!! this has been so frustrating and we thought we had it under control, hardly any meat {NO RED MEAT} then he went out and worked on the roof and the next day BAM!

Hes in so much pain and we don't have medical insurance so we have no choice but to deal with this at home!

ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I'm so glad to find a group with information and others who suffer from this. Thanks for sharing!

[INLINE] Bonnie Young [INLINE]
I feel like I've been in a coma for twenty years
and I'm just now waking up.

http://community.webshots.com/user/byoung41
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Y1048551657

please email me the complete low,moderate and high purine foods
list,thank you, Tom

I just joined yesterday and wanted to say WOW and THANKS!!

We have needed a food list so badly. Seems all the sites have different recomendations for foods.

I did look in files to see what was there. One file I could not open.

Perhaps the moderator could put this list in the files?? It would be a great addition.

Thanks again!!

[INLINE] Bonnie Young [INLINE]
I feel like I've been in a coma for twenty years
and I'm just now waking up.

http://community.webshots.com/user/byoung41
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Y1048551657

Thanks Chris,
thats an interesting idea - I'll have a look at that link :)

Hi Sean
Thanks for the welcome luckily I guess I'm not keen on seafood,
sadly I am very keen on alcohol :)
The first 3-4 were the worst but nearly 3 weeks on I seem to
be `stuck' on various degrees of pain throughout the day. The bicarb
sounds a good place to start looking for what works for me.
I've been reading all the good advice & just hearing other's success
stories is a lift
Cheers,
Ray
[PS God Bless America ;) Only kidding too, I have made many good
friends over the pond thanks to the internet]

Hi to everyone in the group.
I joined 2 or 3 weeks ago but haven't posted up to now as your posts
during this time have been really helpful at answering my questions.
My name is Ray & I live in the UK, I'm just coming up to 3 weeks
into my first attack of Gout. Some of the differences in the names
of things between the UK & USA gets confusing - the med I have been
prescribed is called Diclofenac [25mg - 1 or 2 - 3 times a day]I
can't honestly say they have helped much.
As I understand your discussions there are 3 main approaches & each
individual has to find his/her best combination of them to control
their specific condition & triggers.
1)Purine content of food & beverages
2)Specific ph balancing food & beverages
3)Meds
What I wanted to ask members about was time scales, for example if I
eat something that is a trigger for me when will I know for sure
that item is indeed the trigger. For example an evening meal at 7pm
of Mushrooms would trigger an attack [or worsen an attack] when? An
hour, a few hours or a few days?
In the same way if I have a meal & drink of something low in Purines
& that reduces acidity how long would it be before I had some
noticable benefit? I know there is no instant cure or quick fix here
but with so many options & combinations to try I don't know where to
start.
PS Does everyone in their first attack find themselves very
disapointed to learn there is not a simple/single med that just
dissolves the crystals & makes you feel better? Is there any
research going on I wonder?

Hi all
Its a year this month that I started on allopurinol.
I was on 100 mg for 3 months but my attacks persisted.
Doc had me tested and put me on 400 mg allo.
It triggered a mega atack and also made me extremely sensitive to the
cold for a month or so ( useful in January !!) but my gout attacks
became less frequent and far milder.
When I had an attack I'd take colchicine for a couple of days. I got a
strange rash on the affected joint ( usually my left ankle) and a
puffy sewlling that if I pressed it, it remained depressed for a
while. Bizzare.
Then my attacks changed again - and I started getting them at bony
points in my feet instead of my ankles and knees.
My last attack was four months ago after a foolish week of eating on
vacation and I have been gout free since july.
I have started exercising again without any gou attacks.
To any folks out there trying NOT to take allo, good luck, but I am
very happy with the results of allo ( and common sense in my diet,
plus lots of water) in my case.

Why does chlorine in water cause Gout Symptoms? It destroys protective acidophilus, which nourishes and cooperates with the immunity-strengthening "friendly" organisms lining the colon. And, as mentioned earlier, chlorine combines with organic impurities in the water to make trihalomethanes (THMs), or chloramines. The more organic matter, the more THMs; and like excess oxysterols they are carcinogens. 30% of all uric acid is expelled through the bowels with the help of "friendly" organisms (Bifidobacterium bifidum and Lactobacillus acidophilus)

Excess free radicals created by chlorinated water also create dangerous toxins in the body. These have been directly linked to liver malfunction, weakening of the immune system and pre-arteriosclerotic changes in arteries (which, as we saw, struck Dr. Price's cockerels and may have happened to American soldiers in Korea and Vietnam). Excess free radicals have been linked also to alterations of cellular DNA, the stuff of inheritance.
Chlorine also destroys antioxidant vitamin E, which is needed to counteract excess oxysterols/free radicals for cardiac and anti-cancer protection.
Other harm from chlorination. A study in the late 1970s found that chlorinated water appears to increase the risk of gastrointestinal cancer over a person's lifetime by 50 to 100 percent. This study analyzed thousands of cancer deaths in North Carolina, Illinois, Wisconsin and Louisiana. Risk of such cancers results from use of water containing chlorine at or below the E.P.A. (Environmental Protection Agency) standard and "is going to make the E.P.A. standard look ridiculous," stated Dr. Robert Harris, lead scientist in the study.
Later, a meta-analysis found chlorinated water is associated each year in America with about 4,200 cases of bladder cancer and 6,500 cases of rectal cancer. Chlorine is estimated to account for 9 percent of bladder cancer cases and 18% of rectal cancers. Those cancers develop because the bladder and rectum store waste products for periods of time. (Keeping the bowels moving regularly will minimize such risk.) Chlorinated water is also associated with higher total risk of combined cancers. Chlorine in treated water can cause allergic symptoms ranging from skin rash to intestinal symptoms to arthritis, headaches, and on and on.

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Soup recipe that can be eaten for dinner and/or lunch. This soup recipe will help cleanse the system, add plenty of vitamin A, and neutralize the metabolism. However, do not use any bouillon, it is full of purines! In a large pot mix water (distilled), carrots, onion, fresh garlic, lots of corn, potatoes (skin on and red potatoes work best for texture on long cooking methods), celery, Chinese/Celery cabbage, Bok Choy stalks, and a small can of diced tomatoes for flavor. The carrots and celery take the longest to cook so start them first and end with the tomatoes.

Iceberg salad (No dark green while cleansing). Now the iceberg is of little nutrient value but is a tasty way of combining other important healing foods. Add carrots, avocado, celery, grapes, parsley, cucumber, onions, and tomatoes. (Avoid regular dressing- recipes to follow for dressings and dips)

Baking potato (avoid all purpose âwhiteâ potatoes) with a lot of sour cream. The potatoes to avoid are actually labeled âwhite potatoesâ, the brown and red skinned potato that are still white inside are just fine. Add sour cream and parsley with a tad of sea salt for extra flavoring.

Baked sweet potato with a tiny bit of cinnamon and butter for flavoring. * NO margarine or butter substitutes.*

Cabbage or squash steamed with onions is a nice side dish.

Brown rice may be boiled in the microwave with celery, garlic and/or onions for flavor. Add fresh chestnuts and almonds on the side. Brown rice should always be eaten with the raw almonds/chestnuts to absorb the iron content in the nuts. Donât forget corn, very helpful in healing. Frozen, fresh or corn on the cob. Watch the butter/salt intake, avoid as it can cause water retention, it is important to keep flushing your water intake. You can boil it, microwave it or steam it. This provides a nice protein meal.

Brown rice, carrots, celery, garlic and/or onions, chopped raw almonds, along with a small fresh tomato and steam up a great meal addition. Season with parsley and/or garlic or onion powder to taste.

CASSEROLE: 1 ½ c of brown rice, ¾ c of sour cream, two shakes of soy sauce, 1 ½ c of corn, 2 stalks of bok choy, 1 ½ c of celery cabbage, 1 large carrot, and four cloves of fresh garlic. Pre-cook the rice and then mix ingredients together. Bake at 350º for 30 minutes or until desired temp and texture is achieved.

Spaghetti squash meal (Many find the âorange-typeâ spaghetti squash to be more appealing to the eye but find the -Vegetable spaghetti squash to have a better taste and texture) (a) Halve the spaghetti squash lengthwise, scoop out the seeds. (b) Stovetop: place half squash cut side down in a pot with 2â (5 cm) water (distilled), cover and boil for 20 (c) Squash is half cooked. With fork, scrape out squash to produce spaghetti-like strands. A thin, hard shell will be left. (d) In a large bowl mix the strands of spaghetti squash with a small can of fresh diced tomatoes, onions, and garlic. Mix well and spoon back into squash shell or a casserole dish. (e) Bake at 350 degrees F. (175 C.) for 20 minutes or until done.

Cabbage Rolls: (a) Trim rib of each cabbage leaf thin. In 11- by 7-inch baking dish, cook cabbage leaves in 2 tablespoons water, covered, on High 8 to 10 minutes until tender. Drain and set aside. (b) In 2-quart casserole, add potato, carrots, celery and onion, covered, on High 3 minutes. Stir in uncooked rice and garlic cook for 5 minutes. Remove from microwave and let cool slightly. (c) On center of each cabbage leaf, place about 1/3 cup rice mixture. Fold bottom of leaf over filling; fold sides toward center. Roll tightly, jelly-roll fashion. (d) In 11- by 7-inch baking dish, arrange cabbage rolls seam-side down. Cook covered on High 8 to 12 minutes until tender, rotating dish halfway through cooking. Sprinkle rolls with diced tomatoes and enjoy with sour cream topping.

In between meals it would be great to enjoy some more fresh fruit, yogurt, cottage cheese, and fresh veggies. This helps to keep the calories up and more alkaline healing help. At least one meal/snack per day should be some fresh fruit and raw vegetables. You can take some carrots, avocado, celery, and cucumbers and use one of the dip recipes below for a tasty treat. All of these vegetables are well suited in combination with fruit- avocados and grapefruit or oranges taste great together as well as apples and carrots for example of good combinations. You can use fruit to flavor the veggies, mix together and enjoy of a bed of lettuce.

Use these dressing/dips for the suggested salad recipe in the meal sections above.

Take two large or four small red peppers and place into a frying pan, nothing needed inside it, and cook on all sides until skin is blackened. When the skin is charred it can be peeled right off easily. Cut and de-seed. Puree the pepper and add to 16oz of sour cream. You can spice it up even more with some Cayenne and/or Chili pepper.

Take one cup of plain yogurt and mix with 2 cloves of minced garlic, ½ tsp of Sea Salt, ½ tsp of cumin seeds, ½ tsp of ground ginger, and the zest of one lemon.

Sour cream with some fresh lemon squeeze and spices of choice from selections above can make for a great and simple dressing/dip. Cucumbers prepared with sour cream and fresh lemon are really great for example.

Homemade salsa- GREAT mixed with cottage cheese- Combine some tomatoes, chopped green and red peppers, cucumber, red onion, cilantro, pablano pepper, serrano pepper and a few dashes of garlic, sea salt, lime juice and juice from the tomatoes.

Half a ripe avocado, 1 to 1 ½ frozen bananas, 4 to 5 frozen or fresh strawberries, ¼ cup of plain yogurt, 2 tbls of real honey non pasteurized, Pinch cardamom, Pinch allspice.. whatever else strikes your fancy. . . almonds, fruits, spices, etc. Throw all
ingredients into a blender. Blend until desired texture is reached. I prefer it smooth, but some like it crunchy.

Quick, easy, nutritious, and delicious- this salad is a great side dish to serve family. Take 2 cups cooked brown rice, 2 apples (peeled, cored and chopped), ¾ cup chopped raw almonds, ¼ cup raisins, ¼ cup cherries, ¼ cup dates , 1 cup plain yogurt, ¾ cup of natural honey, 2 Tbsp lemon juice. Toss all ingredients in a bowl and serve.

Shredded cabbage with slaw dressing- 1/2 cup sour cream, and 1/2 cup plain yogurt, then added 2 TBLSP fresh lemon juice, a little sea salt, and 1 tsp. celery seed._,_._,___

hi
Just had my 1st experience of what (after the blood test)the doctor
believes to be gout. Had minor joint and knee pain before, but nothing
to compare with this last attack.
I suffer from i.b.d (chrons) and some of the good meds are off limits.
I would interested in whether there are any others in the group who
could lend advise.
With any luck this could be the 1st and last attack
regards brian

Ginnie,

Was your husband on any antibiotics in the last 6 months or suffered an illness like Mono or a bad flu? Allopurinol should only be taken after the attack is cleared up unless he was on it prior to the attack. Allopurinol is never ever started during an attack per the manufacture themselves.
Here are some suggestions to do for the next 7 days. If you follow this strictly he should start to feel better.

Get distilled water this is the only water he is to drink. No other beverage except frozen OJ (no sugar added made with the distilled water). Drink 1/2 ounce per pound of body weight daily 50% of the time OJ 50% of the time plain water (or add 3 ox of black cherry juice concentrate to 20 oz of the water NO sugar) Drink the fluids slowly do not just guzzle it down, drinking fast will not hydrate the blood.

No sugar products at all, no soda, no tea, no coffee, nothing but the OJ and water.

If you bath in city water, take cool showers, no pools no hot tubs.

Do not loose any weight not even a pound.

Do not eat anything but the following foods, use a complete variety of them not just a few.

Stop any vitamins that have iron or B3 in them.

. I Iron and Niacin, B3, can both be very exasperating to the gout sufferer, especially while under an attack. For this reason, it is important to find a Multivitamin with no iron and made with Niacinamide as opposed to Niacin. Niacinamide does not have Nicotinic Acid that causes problems with a hepatic liver. Additionally, many gout sufferers tend to be deficient in vitamins A, E, B5, and friendly bacteria like Acidophilus. Sometimes extra of these sources can be beneficial to healing as well.

10,000iu of Beta Carote

500mg of B5 also called Pantothenic Acid

400iu of Vitamin E

At least a one time supplement of a GOOD Probiotic/Acidophilus as directed on the label

The Probiotic should be taken in the AM upon waking and before eating, preferably ½ hour before. This supplement is especially helpful if antibiotics have been used in the last year, excessive consumption of chlorined water, or heavy contact with chloranated water to re-establish a healthy intestinal flora which is already challenged on a daily basis by chlorine, stress, illness, injury, medication, and other toxin encounters. Intestinal flora balance is vital for proper vitamin, mineral and supplement assimilation as well as immune and digestive powers to fight infection and expel toxins from the body. Taking this supplement, one bottle, and then also following up its use with daily intake of sour dairy, especially plain yogurt, helps to keep the re-established flora thriving against its daily challengers making way for much easier healing as well as daily digestive and immune support from then on. If you are not a big fan of plain yogurt make smoothies with fresh or
frozen fruit, add black cherry consentrate to sweeten.

Eat these foods only no cooking in oil. No salud dressings make out of sour cream and lemon juice.

Garden Fruits and Vegetables (fresh or frozen) : Carrots, Celery, Boiled or Steamed Cabbage (limit to avoid bloat), Zucchini and Summer Squash, Baked Sweet Potato (fresh not canned), Corn on the Cob, Cucumbers, Iceberg Lettuce, Cantaloupe, Onions, Parsley, Tomatoes (NO sauce and limit- not a staple food), Watermelon, Sweet Peppers, Fresh Chili Peppers, and Potatoes with skin preferably. Avoid the type labeled âWhite Potatoâ but all other baking potatoes like Russets are fine to eat. Red potatoes are higher in sugar but can at least be used in the soup recipe below as the texture holds up better over longer cooking times. Avoid cauliflower and all dark leafy green veggies for this time period because of high iron content and purines.

Tree Fruits and Berries (fresh or frozen): Apples, Avocado, RIPE Bananas (every day during cleansing for potassium replacement), Fresh Coconut, Cherries, Currants, Gooseberries, Dates, Raisins, Fresh Fig, Kiwi, Grapefruit, Mango, Papaya, Seedless Grapes, Lemon (Internal use for alkaline and healing power as well as outside on the skin for anti-inflammatory relief), Lime, Oranges, Pears, Pineapples, Blueberries, Raspberries, and Strawberries. Avoid cranberries, apricots, and all dried fruits because of acidity and purines.

Grains: Brown rice and Fresh or Frozen Corn

Protein: Raw almonds and Chestnuts (nothing cooked in oil) - This is a very important daily purine free protein source during cleansing, but should always be eaten with BROWN RICE. Brown rice helps to absorb the iron content in the nuts. A combination of brown rice, almonds, and corn provide the same essential protein and amino acids as a piece of meat would but without the purines.

Dairy: Sour dairy- Yogurt (Plain with your own fresh fruit added at least during the cleansing phase, commercially fruited are acidic in nature and full of sugar), 2% Cottage Cheese and Sour Cream. These three sour dairy products, plain yogurt especially, are very alkaline and healing adding essential friendly bacteria to the body boosting digestion and immune system power.

Sweetener: Fresh Un-Pasteurized Bee Honey and Stevia

Flavorings: Fresh Squeezed Lemon Juice, Unsalted Real Butter Only, Small Amounts of Soy Sauce, Fresh Grinded Flax Seed (great to put in cottage cheese), Pure Coconut oil (the only oil safe when heated in the body or by cooking)

Spices/Seasoning: Garlic, Ginger, Turmeric, Cumin, Chicory, Cilantro, Fennel, Chili Pepper, Cayenne, Tamari, Celery Seed, Parsley, Cinnamon, Sea Salt (NO table salt and should considering replacing it for good!!)

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[INLINE]

Hi!

Several people posted about their success with baking soda and water. Please repost.

Thanks,

Kent Dusing

I am new here, my husband has gout. He is having a flare up right now
and hte pain is terrible, Aleve isn't even touching it. I am mainly
looking for any "home remedies" that may help. Anything is
appreciated.
Thanks
Michelle

I have had gout since i was around 25. I am 32 now and I have been doing pretty good so far. My doc had me on allopurinol @ 200mg twice daily.I keep having attacks

in my big toe and ankle. I have been taking indomethacin for the attacks @ 50mg.

I dont know what I would do with out the indo while under an attack.

But i have changed my diet around, mostly chicken and fish. I have found out, for me, while I am on this so called diet i have not got an attack for at least a year+.

Its hard not to eat red meat and drink beer the way I used to, but every now and again

I treat myself. For me I really dont like to take pills every day but i still take an allopurinal around twice a month just to be on the safe side. It works for me, but i know every one is different. Well theres my story and I hope everyone stays attack free. Laters

Nick Ashe

About a month ago I started taking baking soda morning and night,
probably more than a half teaspoon each time, but certainly not a whole
teaspoon. Although I have had some twinges during this period, nothing
to worry about. I am also drinking cherry juice and watching my diet a
bit, and no beer.
Historically I have had excellent blood pressure, even though I am 52
at my last check in May it was about 110/70. I checked my pressure on
Friday and again today, and I am now averaging about 130/85. Not bad,
but not great like it used to be. Since no one seems to know for sure
how much help baking soda is for gout, and everyone agrees that
elevated blood pressure is no good, I guess I better stop with the
baking soda. The search continues.
Chase Kimball

I've been reading the site for only a few weeks, spurred on by my
latest attack. Many sites (see below) and books lists "secondary"
gout and give diuretics (water tablets) as a possible cause. Small
dose asprin used to prevent clots, heart attacks, strokes can also
cause problems.
I've had two heart attacks, one 10 years ago, one five and have been
on asprin and a diuretic (Frusimide, now re-named Furosemede)for the
last five years. Gout attacks started three years ago.
I'm not convinced this last attack which lasted almost five weeks
and attacked the left knee, then foot and then the right knee and
foot and was more about muscles/ligaments than joints, was just gout.
Furosemede is meant to ease the breathlessness caused by my slight
heart failure (one leaky valve).I've stopped the Furosemede and have
not suffered breathlessnes etc but have still to tackle a proper
hill walk. Still to go back to GP and tell him what I've done.
Anyone any experience in this area?
I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes 18 months ago, and it now seems
possible that that was the result of being put on beta blockers.
OK, it's a question of balance, but it's hard not to feel that
consultants don't know/care enough about the effects of their
suggested medication outside their speciality. If you die of a heart
attack that's on their books; if you're banging your head on the
wall with gout or can't plan a walking holiday in case it flares up,
that's not on their patch.
Details about effect diuretics on British Gout Society, Bandolier
and netdoctor.co.uk sites. Brian Mason

For almost 2 months now as per prescribed by my doctor I take llanol
100 mg, 1 tablet in the morning and another in the evening and it gave
me a good result. My gout on my knee stop bothering me. Whenever I
feel it came back sometimes on my big toe and elbow I continue to take
my allopurinol but if it is very worst i take 1 tablet of ARCOXIA
(ETORICOXIB) 120 mg., the next day everything is okey. Is it really
bad to take allopurinol everyday even at low dosage. How about arcoxia
will somebody tell me who used this kind of drug about its side effect
to our body. Thank you.

Allopurinol is not the total answer for all gout sufferers. I was on Allopurinol for 12 years, it stopped working altogether. My liver became enlarged and the Allopurinol gave me Hepatitis. The doctors told me I was on the brink of liver failure, when I was taken off the drug. The conclusion was that I was on Allopurinol for such a long time (300mg) that I became hypersensitive to the drug.

A 66-year-old female was admitted for rehabilitation of a cerebral hemorrhage on September 11, 1981. Allopurinol, clofibrate, and baclofen were administered. Severe hepatitis developed on November 13. The clinical laboratory data returned to normal on November 30. Challenge tests were conducted on clofibrate, allopurinol, and baclofen. The challenge test was positive after the administration of allopurinol. Allopurinol hepatitis is most likely a hypersensitivity reaction, as is suggested by the symptoms of eosinophilia and rash. Renal dysfunction may predispose one to develop hepatitis associated with allopurinol.

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I have done pretty well with natural cures for gout: juices, water,
baking soda, mildly restricted diet. I have never had a really serious
attack in my right big toe, but several times I have limped around and
restricted my movement for several days because of pain. This has not
been a big deal as long as I am around my home or office, but I am
concerned that I will be on a vacation during which I want or need to
do a lot of walking, or hiking in the desert/mountains, have a flareup,
and ruin the vacation or be stranded on a hike. I am lucky, I can
generally go six months to a year between attacks, and the attacks only
last about a week and are not nearly as bad as some of those which are
discussed here. I would like recommendations of medication or regimen I
can follow starting shortly before a trip when I want to guarantee that
I will have no problems for a week or so.
Chase Kimball

I bought all the Knudsen's natural black cherry juice at my grocery
store and they have been out of it for about a week. I have been to
two other stores but haven't found it elsewhere. I want to do every
reasonable thing in my power to keep the gout from coming back, so I am
taking 2 half teaspoons of baking soda a day, taking two black cherry
capsules, drinking lots of orange juice, lots of water (of course),
stopped drinking beer (a hideous deprivation), and was drinking a pint
of cherry juice a day until I ran out. Is there a reasonable
substitute for black cherry juice? One website I went to suggested the
ingredient in black cherry that made it helpful was the blue plant dye
anthocyanin. If that is correct, another berry or fruit juice with
anthocyanin might be just as good, like blueberry. Any thoughts on
substitute juices while I am waiting for the cherry juice to be
restocked?
Chase Kimball

I have been looking at the Wikipedia article on anthocyanins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin
It seems that anthocyanins change colors based on PH, that in acidic
plants it is red, and alkaline plants it is blue. Assuming this to be
correct, then wouldn't an alkaline blue juice, like blueberry, be
better for us than an acidic red juice, like cherry? I understand that
some acidic juices, like orange, can still be good for us. But if an
acidic fruit/berry juice is good, wouldn't an alkaline fruit/berry
juice be better?
Chase

I am getting ready to order some Vitamins and Supplements and wonder
what do others take for Gout? And where do you get them? I have used
vitacost.com and Puritan's Pride (puritan.com)but am open to hear about
other websites?
Thanks, Gypsy

Hi all. I am new to tre group and newly diagnosed to gout. Never
thought anything like this would happen to me at 37. I would
appreciate any help and knowledge everyone has aquired over the years
on this. One thing that is of concern to me is what to do when an
acute attack hits? I got my first acute attack and now I can't walk
without a lot of pain, and forget about putting a shoe on, so I am
home from work. I am waiting for the doctor to open so I can get some
anti-inflamitories. So, is there anything I can do when I get hit
with an acute attack other than call for anti-inflamitories? Any home
remedies that work? Does ice do anything for the swelling? Elevation?
Also, is there a good diet for this condition? I have played with
Atkins for the past 6 years on and off. This has probably been the
biggest contributing factor to this, besides being overweight. I have
grown accustom to eating a lot of protein during the day, which of
course has not been good for my kidneys, which is what most likely led
to this diagnosis. On the other hand, the items that list as safe and
low-purine are all weight gainers for me. The rice, pasta and such.
So, is there a good diet for weight loss? I need to lose about 75 lbs
(at least).
Thanks in advance for any help.

Hi People,
I was put on Allo (100mg)about 12 months ago but for the first few
months it hadn't controlled the uric acid level and was recommended
300mg. Having not come to terms with the thought of being on tablets
for the rest of my life stuck to the 100mg. After 9 months being fairly
free of symtoms following an average diet I have just had the worst
attack ever and although it has receded slightly doesn't want to go
away.
My diet over the last week has been quite strict, beer has been
replaced by soda water and regular glasses of bicarb but nothing seems
to shift it.
Any thoughts any one?
Jaime

Here is a book on gout on Amazon.com. (See link
below). Anyone on this list read it?
http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Rid-Gout-Bryan-Emmerson/dp/0195516672/sr=8-1/qid=1\
158116760/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2514436-1992854?ie=UTF8&s=books
--Diane

I was talking to some people last night, and I was told that acupuncture
has been used successfully to treat gout. I found a little something on
it here:
http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/Health-problems/Gout%20-%20researchAltThera\
pies.htm
Have any of us tried acupuncture successfully? There is a traditional
Chinese acupuncturist, Master Lu, who has an office near me, and I have
thought about visiting him.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Chase Kimball (chase@...), Nom de Guerre "Hannibal"
+
+"Sun-treader, light and life be thine for ever!" Robert Browning,
+"Pauline."
+
+Visit my home page at http://www.aros.net/~chase to view the
+virtual gallery of fantasy art of Jesse Allen, and the home site
+of the Wasatch Avian Education Society.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi there,

I have been diagonised with Gout almost 1 year ago and had few severe attacks. Previosly I have posted few info but am sure not benefitial one's as I was little informed . As my doc's advice I used Indo ( 50 mg) twice a day and drink lots of water, cut down on Alcohol ( Strictly no Beer, but Bacardi occasionally), Red Meat, Sea foods, Lentils, Spinach etc as you all know by now. But still I was getting attacks. As someone in the group suggested I tried Baking Soda ( Sodium Bicarbonate) , 1/4 teaspoon of Fenugreek powder mixed with water, once a day ( morning) for few days. But it was increasing my BP and was feeling horrible. So I stopped it. I am 38, slightly overweight !!!, 82 Kgs, 172 cms tall. As you may know Indomethacin too has a side effect , that it increases the risk of Heart attack for someone on the verge of it. Honestly I dont know the scientific side of it. Read it in the web http://www.icuredmygout.org/

I am a Sales Person ,travel a lot and I got really fed up and contacted an Ayurvedic doc in India ( I am an Indian Living in Dubai). In Ayurveda there are effective treatments without any side effects. He is going to send it but meanwhile he suggested me to take 1/2 teaspoon of FENUGREEK powder mixed with water , first thing in the morning. He says the results are guaranteed. I am feeling better. Also it has the adavntages of bringing down your cholestrol level. But it says that the Blood Sugar level will be lowered if taken in excess, not recommended for pregnant women. Please see below few links which might help you all and am sure some guys in the group are too good in analyzing the scientfic side of it. .

http://www.indianspices.com/html/s0628fgk.htm

http://health.enotes.com/alternative-medicine-encyclopedia/fenugreek

I am not an expert in it and await comments from you guys

Joe

My husband has had very painful joints that seem to seize up if he
doesn't move them around. His joints make a grinding, snapping noise.
For years my husband has been fobbed off by doctors saying his pain
is arthritis due to having psorisas. Recently his condition
worsened, and the pain has become unbearable, to the point of finding
it very bad to get out of bed. He has broken a few bones lately, due
to nothing really (for instance leaning on a balcony he broke a
rib). He also has white lumps on his ears, and on his knuckles.
The other day he had a really red painful toe so he went to emergency
dept, who said it was gout. We then visited a doctor who said it was
definately gout, and ran some tests.
When the tests came back to our gp the uric acid level was normal so
the doctor said it could never of been gout otherwise this would show.
We are frustrated and confused as our gp said he will not refer us to
a specialist, because of the pain etc and the creaky joints we feel
we need proper help.
I believe that it does not make any difference whether the test
showed ok because i have read that this does not mean it was not
gout. My husband has become very depressed and frustrated as things
have been going on for over 10 years.
We need to find help but do not know where to go
We are from the UK
thanks

Orange Juice Best at Stopping Kidney Stones
Mon Sep 4, 7:03 PM ET
MONDAY, Sept. 4 (HealthDay News) -- An independent study finds that
orange juice beats lemonade and other citrus fruit juices in helping
to keep kidney stones at bay.
Experts have long known that potassium citrate -- found in citrus
juice -- can slow stone formation in people with a history of the
condition.
But this study, by a team from the University of Texas Southwestern
Medical Center at Dallas, found that other components can affect a
juice's ability to prevent stones.
Thirteen volunteers (some with a history of kidney stones and some
without) took part in the multi-phase trial, which was funded by the U.S.
National Institutes of Health. For one week, participants drank
distilled water, for another week orange juice, and then lemonade for
another week. There was a three-week interval between each of these weeks.
During each phase, the participants drank 13 ounces of orange juice,
lemonade or distilled water three times a day with meals. They were
also put on a low-calcium, low-oxalate diet, which also helps cut
stone formation.
The study found that orange juice increased levels of citrate in the
urine and reduced the crystallization of uric acid and calcium
oxalate, the most common components of kidney stones. Lemonade did not
increase citrate levels.
"One reason might be the different constituents of various beverages,"
study lead author Dr. Clarita Odvina, assistant professor of internal
medicine at the Charles and Jane Pak Center for Mineral Metabolism and
Clinical Research, said in a prepared statement.
Odvina noted that the citrate in orange and grapefruit is accompanied
by a potassium ion while the citrate in lemonade and cranberry juice
is accompanied by a hydrogen ion. While hydrogen ions counteract the
beneficial effects of high citrate content, potassium ions do not.
The study is available online and was expected to be published in the
Oct. 26 print issue of the Clinical Journal of the American Society of
Nephrology.

A lot of people and web sites think citrus juice is acidic. While the juice itself is citric acid, when it is consumed and reaches the stomach acids a chemical reaction takes place and the citrus actually has an alkalizing effect on the bowels and urine thus increasing uric acid output by the kidneys which in turn should reduce the possibility of uric acid kidney stones.

Orange Juice probably does not have a direct effect on the uric acid in the blood supply other than allowing the kidneys to dispose of an extra percentage of it when drank daily. Any extra help in keeping the blood supply in a normal range should help protect against the build up of uric acid that eventually ends up as a gout attack. I would be sure to use all natural OJ (no sugar added) to be sure to benefit the most from its daily use. I would also assume that its daily use per the study should allow a little leeway in ones restrictive diet (for those that have to be real careful). Also this is assuming that your kidneys are working well enough and they themselves are not the reason you suffer with gout.

The study found that orange juice increased levels of citrate in the
urine and reduced the crystallization of uric acid and calcium
oxalate, the most common components of kidney stones. Lemonade did not
increase citrate levels.
"One reason might be the different constituents of various beverages,"
study lead author Dr. Clarita Odvina, assistant professor of internal
medicine at the Charles and Jane Pak Center for Mineral Metabolism and
Clinical Research, said in a prepared statement.
Odvina noted that the citrate in orange and grapefruit is accompanied
by a potassium ion while the citrate in lemonade and cranberry juice
is accompanied by a hydrogen ion. While hydrogen ions counteract the
beneficial effects of high citrate content, potassium ions do not.

Splenda â the public health experiment

âLowâsugarâ is the successor to the âlowâcarbâ craze, even though they are essentially the same thing. According to the New York Times, by the end of this summer 11% of the food items on supermarket shelves will be labeled âreduced sugarâ â most of those targeted at kids and their health-conscious moms. Sales in granulated sugar have dropped four percent in the past six months. Whatâs behind this trend? Splenda.

Products featuring Splenda are perceived as ânaturalâ because even the FDAâs press release about sucralose parrots the claim that âit is made from sugarâ â an assertion disputed by the Sugar Association, which is suing Splendaâs manufacturer, (McNeil Nutritionals).

The FDA has no definition for ânatural,â so please bear with us for a biochemistry moment: Splenda is the trade name for sucralose, a synthetic compound stumbled upon in 1976 by scientists in Britain seeking a new pesticide formulation. It is true that the Splenda molecule is comprised of sucrose (sugar) â except that three of the hydroxyl groups in the molecule have been replaced by three chlorine atoms. (To get a better picture of what this looks like, see this image of a sucralose molecule.)

While some industry experts claim the molecule is similar to table salt or sugar, other independent researchers say it has more in common with pesticides. Thatâs because the bonds holding the carbon and chlorine atoms together are more characteristic of a chlorocarbon than a salt â and most pesticides are chlorocarbons. The premise offered next is that just because something contains chlorine doesnât guarantee that itâs toxic. And that is also true, but you and your family may prefer not to serve as test subjects for the latest post-market artificial sweetener experiment â however âunique.â (See our article on endocrine disruptors for more information on toxins and persistent organic pollutants.)

Once it gets to the gut, sucralose goes largely unrecognized in the body as food â thatâs why it has no calories. The majority of people donât absorb a significant amount of Splenda in their small intestine â about 15% by some accounts. The irony is that your body tries to clear unrecognizable substances by digesting them, so itâs not unlikely that the healthier your gastrointestinal system is, the more youâll absorb the chlorinated molecules of Splenda.

So, is Splenda safe? The truth is we just donât know yet. There are no long-term studies of the side effects of Splenda in humans. The manufacturerâs own short-term studies showed that sucralose caused shrunken thymus glands and enlarged livers and kidneys in rodents. But in this case, the FDA decided that because these studies werenât based on human test animals, they were not conclusive. Of course, there are countless examples of foods and drugs that have proved dangerous to humans that were first found to be dangerous to laboratory rats, and then again, countless others that have not. So the reality is that we are the guinea pigs for Splenda.

And now, are our children the next trial group? Thanks to an agreement between McNeil Nutritionals (makers of Splenda) and PTO Today, which provides marketing and fund-raising aid to parentsâ associations, your elementary schoolâs next bake sale may be sponsored by Splenda â complete with baked goods made with the product.

Splenda side effects

.

[INLINE]

Hi.
About 2 years ago, I was having intermittent, classic gout symptoms
in the joint just below my right big toe. I didn't know it was gout
at the time. A podiatrist told me I should have a bunionectomy. I
complied. During the procedure, the podiatrist told me "Oh, you
have gout. I can see chalky crystals" (or something to that
effect). OK. So, I've recovered from the bunionectomy, with very
few symptoms there anymore. No more goutish symptoms in the big toe
joint.
I've had a couple of blood studies for uric acid---both were 6.5,
which I understand is borderline. One doctor prescribed
allopurinol. But, at the suggestion of another doctor I trust, in
light of my marginal blood test and with no symptoms at the time, I
didn't take the allopurinol. I decided to try drinking lots of
water and modifying my diet. This seems to have worked so far, at
least concerning my big toe.
Now, I have a new symptom, and I wonder if it could be gout-
related. In the past couple of months, I've developed bumps at the
rear of my heels---especially on the back of my left heel, near the
bottom. The bumps are kind of spongy, colorless, small, very near
the surface. The area is tender and numb-feeling. If I put weight
on my foot the wrong way, I get a sharp stinging pain in the area.
Aside from this, I can certainly live with the discomfort, which is
truly mild. But, I wonder if this is a manifestation of gout, and
if so, what I should do about it?
Thanks, Lars

Dear Group,
I found a post in this group that lists a remedy for gout involving
the use of baking soda and water mixture. I have had gout for the
past two years off and on. I used to get it, go to the Doctor, get a
shot, then take Indo. After a day or two,things would be back to
normal pretty much for a few months. My most recent attack was back
in May 2006 and I still have mild swelling in my left big toe joint
(going on four months now). I deleted caffeine, drank cherry juice,
lowered my red meat intake. I bought a little wider shoes to give my
foot extra room. I still have had the same amount of swelling,and
the joint still hurts. I was beginning to think that the joint was
damaged :( !! After reading through several post, I stumbled along
one that talked about this individual that had gout for almost 27
years. He said it was so severe that he almost thought of having his
foot amputated ( I can relate to that I might add). As I read
through his post, he tried the baking soda (1/2 teaspoon with 4oz.
of water) once in the morning and once at night. After 3 days his
swelling and pain were gone. Completely normal. He says. Well, I
decided to give it a shot myself.
Day # 1: Drank it morning & night, the next morning I felt about 10%
better. It looked as though the swelling was moving away from my
joint. I noticed that it looked a little lighter pink (Less red).
Day # 2 : Drank it morning and night, noticed late afternoon that I
was walking 80% normal. (I didnt realize it right away). I thought
wow maybe their is something here. On day #3 It feels so much
better. Still have just a little swelling. No redness whatsoever.
The joint is a little tight. My walk is about 80-90% back to normal.
I dont have the limp I had for the past 4 months. (my calf musles
are enjoying the vacation!!) So far this seems to have worked (for
me) but its only been the 3rd day on the baking soda/ water mixture.
Just thought that I would share this information with the group. If
any one has had great results or side effects taking this mixture. I
would love to know. Thanks!
Steve
Steve

I am staying on a low-purine diet. I find I have to be pretty
strict: no meat or seafood of any kind at all, no meat broths, no
spinach, no asparagus, very little beans, etc.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area; we have *tons* of restaurants
of all varieties around here. I occasionally find myself in a social
situation where I'm eating in a restaurant that really doesn't fit my
diet very well, and I have to cope.
I find I can survive in most kinds of restaurants. (Mexican used to
be hard, until I discovered Chili Rellenos).
But I find I dread Japanese restaurants. The only thing I'm sure I
can eat there is rice and vegetable tempura, and I'm really not that
fond of vegetable tempura. And surviving on just rice will make me
too grumpy.
Are there other foods at a Japanese restaurant that are low purine?
How about miso soup? Is that high purine? I *think* it has fish in
it, which means that I *think* it's high purine, so I've been
avoiding it, but I don't really know. How about udon? Is the broth
in that safe?
How about Indian restaurants? The only thing I'm sure is safe there
is rice and Naan bread. Is there anything else?
Thanks,
Terry

I after more than 4 or 5 years have a gout attack in my knee again. It is not debilitating as before, I can limp with a cane by day 4 and now without on day 7. If any of you know the knee is a lot worse than the foot or toe! I will tell you why I know what has caused this attack a little later.

Some of you know that I have chosen to combat my gout naturally without drugs. I was on drugs for gout for over 10 years and they all ended up as I saw failing me, the doctors could not stop my attacks that came back on as soon as they were gone. At times I have had attacks in both knees at the same time while on Allo, chol, and indo. My doctors told me that they would sign papers to have me go on SSI permanently at the ripe old age of 45.

I am having problems because of a virus I have picked up! I have Mono! It started with a spleen attack about 3 weeks ago, man it hurt like a knife in my ribs. Then I felt tired and a fever, still ignoring it I had sore throat a few days later. So I went to the Doc and she told me I had Mono for a number of weeks at least. She did not give me anything because I was fighting it well (I take a lot of vitamins and herbs) just as well because antibiotics will also bring on a gout attack believe me. It did not occur to me that maybe I should be careful with my diet though (dumb mistake). Had a weekend of bad foods from ribs to crab legs and mussels, plus a few too many black Russians. Monday I was OK but Tuesday it hit me like a ton of bricks.

I have posted this before from some research I have done on the net about aspirin. I am not telling anyone to do this, I have a cast iron stomach. The research I have pointed to in the past was that high dose aspirin actually improves clearance by the kidneys of uric acid. So I figured it is time to use myself as a ginny pig. I took my regular vitamins and herbs along with 4 325 mg aspirins on Wednesday. Several hours went by and nothing, maybe even a little more pain. So I let it go and was eating only foods to help heal an attack. Thursday I was hungry and starting to loose some weight (bad for an attack) so I thought well maybe it would be better to eat something that would help stop weight loss that seemed safe. I choose pasta (wheat) non bleached and a can of diced tomatoes poured on top. By 12 midnight I was in so much pain I was thinking about how stupid I was to eat pasta and tomatoes. By 4 am I was looking for a gun. I scooted down the stairs to my kitchen and
leaned against the counter wondering what I could do. I decided that the aspirin was going to get another chance. I took out 6 pills this time plus my vitamins and herbs. Ate a banana (ripe) and poured some Skim milk and took this hand full of pills not knowing it is was going to make it worse or tear my gut up. By the time I crawled back up the stairs I was a little dizzy (maybe from my blood being thinned by the aspirin?). I crawled into bed and put an ice pack on my knee and actually does off either from exhaustion or too much aspirin? who knows. I woke back up at 9:30 am to find I could move my knee with a lot less pain, Barely made it to the toilet to empty my bladder and could not get over how much better the knee felt in just a few hours. I do not know if it was the aspirin alone but this was a dramatic turn around in just a few short hours. The swelling is now going down and the knee only hurts when I bend it too far but at rest no pain at all opened or bent writing
this.

Hi... I'm new to this group.. I just found that the pain in my ankle
is gout... It's sure painfull... I work full time and my job requires
me to be on my feet 8 hrs a day..
I'm looking for any information that I can find on gout and treatments
and diets availabe.. I read that it's common in over weight people.
That's not me.. I weigh 118 lbs.. Thank you for letting me join the
group and I will welcome any information that I can find...
Sharon Jones

Does anyone have any suggestions for loosening up my calf muscle which seizes up
after an attack because of the way I try to compensate for the pain my feet.
It's like a
charley horse obly ten times (at least) worse?

i've just been told i have acute gout and need to keep away from
certain foods, anybody out there can tell me what i can have and what
i cannot have many thanks

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