Interested in gout

Is there such a thing as a topical gout treatment that actually
relieves pain and helps disperse the crystal formations in the joint?
I would love to hear from someone who has tried something that worked.
Please feel free to email me! budweiserfrogs@...

Is Indocin as effective as colchicine twice daily in warding off gout
rather than taking allopurinol (am concerned about liver damage using
allopurinol continually. And can someone tell me what "osteonecrosis"
is from taking prednison? I've developed hip problems and have taken
prednisone 3 different times this year - wonder if this has created hip
problems (have to have a hip replacement now!!). Please offer some
help as soon as possible. Thank you! Rustic

Hi i am new to the group. I am 31 years old, have been suffering from
gout for 5 years that i know of.When i first got pain in my toe doctor
was unsure. Had x ray, then said must be ligament damage due to active
lifestyle. It wasn't til colleague suggested gout that i went back to
see doctor.Doctor dismissed it straight away and wouldn't test for it.
Next time i went back i demanded he did so. Results came back that it
was gout. I suffer around once a year and always around start of August
(doctor said just coincidence).I don't seem to understand as to why i
suffer. I am very active do triathlons and thai boxing.Am not
overweight.Don't drink very much alcohol. Am vegetarian. Always drink
plenty of water. What frustrates me is to know this time next year i'l
have two weeks where i can't walk properly nevermind do any triahlons.
I am currently having gout attack which i have had for 11 days.I don't
know whether i need to alter diet, is there anyone i can see that can
help?(other than doctor), doctor won't put me on medication that will
reduce uric acid levels(have had five attacks, maybe more as if toes
get stiff anytime i take anti inflamm quick.
Any advice from anyone would be great.

I HAVE SUFFERED WITH GOUT ATTACKS FOR OVER TWENTY YEARS. AFTER MY LAST
ATTACK I STARTED TO TAKE ALLOPURINOL: 100MG DAILY. I AWOKE THIS MORNING
WITH A PAIN IN MY ANKLE AND ITS STARTING TO GET WORSE. SHOULD I
THEREFORE STOP TAKING ALLPOURINOL AND GO ONTO COLCHICINE? OR INFACT
TAKE BOTH??
KIND REGARDS
MICHAEL

Hello everyone,
I've read this group on and off (usually during attacks) for awhile now. Has
helped me get
through the tough times. Actually it has been awhile since I've been here, 2
years since
my last attack. I'm 35 years old and have had gout for 10 years now.
Indomethicine has
worked for me in the past, but I don't tolerate it very well. A few years back
I switched to
Naproxen and had good luck, with no need to take anything for quite awhile now.
I tried
Allopurinol prior to the 2 year hiatus, but it seemed to make me really drowsy,
and had to
discontinue.
Has anyone seen this? My current attack has lasted 3 months. Luckily not all of
it in pain,
but always red and swollen (toe twice it's normal size). Wearing sandals to
work everyday,
much to the chagrin of the HR department.
My attack started in the middle of April in the left toe and took about two
weeks to go
away with Naproxen. Then at the end of April my right toe had an attack, and
there it has
stayed till today. After about two weeks of Naproxen most of the pain and heat
had gone,
but the swelling and redness persists. I've tried going back on Indomethicine
for two
weeks to no better effect. Recently I saw a Rheumatologist, and he put me on
Prednisone
for 15 days. Had absolutely no effect at all, as a matter of fact when I first
went on it, I
stopped taking the NSAIDs thinking it would not be necessary. Within a day the
swelling
shot up, and pain returned. Friday was the last day of the Prednisone, and I do
not wish to
use it again. I tried cutting my Naproxen in half, and today (Sunday) the
swelling is back
up again along with the pain.
Without exercise and taking the steroid my weight has shot up, and I'm sorta at
the end of
my rope here.
What should I do? I seem to have stumped my doctor who seems to think
Prednisone
should have done the trick. The doc has suggested a low dosage of colchicine.
Worth a
shot? I've never taken colchicine before. Should I try and push for a larger
dose of
NSAIDs? More meds stink, but I don't know what else to try. I'm trying to get
this attack
over with and give Allopurinol another shot.
Any advise would be appreciated!
Doug

Hi, I just joined too. It's cool to find a gout support group. there
are many support groups for arthritis, but i cant find many for gout.
Well, I am a 32 year old man with gout. I first got diagnosed with
gout back in '99. Its been a pain. no pun intended. I have done so
much research and talked to many doctors because i dont want this
lame disease to haunt me my whole life. Also, my mom has gout and I
worry that my daughter will inherit it too. So, I try to stay
educated, however most of my gout smarts come from living through the
flare ups. One thing I have noticed is that it attacks me more often
when i am heavy. However, if I try to hurry up and lose my extra
weight, so i wont get as many flareups, then the dieting causes major
flareups. So, I guess my advise for the day is to stay thin (or at
least as thin as is comfortable or possible for you), but watch the
dieting. Don't lose or gain weight too quickly. I try to drink alot
of water a day (1 1/2 gallons for a big guy like me. I am 6'3" 230
lbs. The abundance of water will flush out your system, and it will
aid in getting you to a thinner you. Also, make sure you take multi-
vitamin supplement. I've heard that too much Vitamin C can cause
flareups, but I don't know if thats just an old wive's tale.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to being a part of this group.
Rob

Hi folks
If one has a low kidney function (20%) is it safe to start allopurinol at a 50mg does?
My dad seems to be getting gout attacks every few months and we have only avoided allo to be cautious due to the fact that he has low kidney fuction and he is already on beta blockers/ace inhibitors/statin/aspiring after a heart bypass a year ago.
Richy

Hi,
Just joined. I was a member briefly a few years ago. Now I'm
back. Got a question. Hoping for information from kind souls on the list.
I've been gouty for years and years. In the early days, I refused
to believe I was gouty because my symptoms never quite seemed to match
what I read. It all started with my big toes, of course, and it hurt,
but it was never the "worse than child-birth" kind of pains they enjoyed
warning us so much about. My very first attack wasn't helped by
colchicine, the "magic bullet," and that was a major reason I thought it
might not be gout. But a couple decades later, colchicine is now my
best friend.
Used to lie on my couch for a a couple weeks at a time taking
NAIADS, waiting for my knees to get better. In retrospect, not sure if
that was gout or just weak tendons and ligaments from lack of
exercise. No knee problems in years, especially since I began walking
and lifting weights. But these days I get tingles, itches and pain in
a variety of joints in my feet and hands, which seems consistent with my
reading that gout tends to involve more joints the longer you have
it. And I've got a couple painless, hard bumps which have formed on
my feet, on the small toe joint which I injured years ago, and on the
back of a heel. I assume they're tophi.
I've fallen into the comfortable habit of starting colchicine
whenever I feel pain starting in a foot joint. If I'm good about
catching it early, I can usually knock it down within 2 & 1/2 days or so.
So that's me and my history. I'd like to ask a question about
something I've noticed in recent months. I've recently come through a
bout of what I've started calling "foggy gout." It's kind of a low
grade attack, I think. I had a minor pain start in one finger, with
itching in three joints in my other hand, maybe a touch of pain in a big
toe, though not enough to make me limp. All stuff I could probably
ignore if I weren't concerned about it's worsening into a big gout
attack. All this I could write off as a gout attack, take colchicine
for a couple days and be done with it.
But something comes along with it. This is the "foggy" part. I
feel tired and draggy. I just feel lifeless and without much
motivation. I need 2 to 4 hours extra sleep, which I get in naps
during the day. It's as though my whole body chemistry is screwed up
somehow. I feel muscle achy, kind of low grade flu like symptoms. And
it ends with a deep nap. I had a nap like that yesterday, after a few
days of the minor, itchy symptoms. I worked through the morning though
tired and draggy, then felt really sleepy. A intended brief nap
lasted 2 1/2 hours and when I awoke, I felt normal again. I mean, not
tired and draggy. Eager to do what I needed to do. It was just
over. A sudden and dramatic change.
Am I the only one in the world feeling this? Is this consistent
with known gout symptoms, this whole tired, screwed up body chemistry
feeling stuff? Maybe it's not gout at all?
For what it's worth, I'm 60, Type 2 diabetic, well controlled.
My A1c's bounce between 5.5 and 6.3 (that's pretty good). I walk and
lift weights, though I should do them more often. Athlete's foot.
Very fat. Not too much else. Like to think of myself as generally
healthy.
Thanks for any thoughts? Any good links to explore?
Edd

Hi I am a new member I am 50 years old and have had gout for two years
now i ham just recovering from an attack which started on thursday
night.
I have 2 questions my doctor prescription was voltarol 50 mg tablets
and the pain killer co codamol my cousin who also suffers was
prescriped voltarol 50mg and iburofen
what is the best over the counter drug.?
Yesterday while nursing my foot feeling sorry for myself moaning to
the wife about the pain (no sypathy thier all i get is you should try
child birth sometime!)I digress - While surfing the web i read the
same story about the baking soda so I force my swollen foot into the
biggest pair of trainers I could find and rushed off to the local
sanisburys to see if I could find "baking soda".All i could find was
baking power is that the same thing ?
I have found that long period between meals gives me a problem which
has just happened to me on holiday getting this attack on my return.
My cousin told me that grape tablets he bought from Holland & Barrat
have stopped his attacks (guess where i am going monday morning)
All suggestion welcome
Bob

Since you don't have capital punishment anymore in the UK (you don't, do you?) when you catch the creeps who are messing up your WONDERFUL London, inject them with high levels of uric acid daily and keep them away from indo et al. Good for a start.

Has anyone else heard of this or use this now or before? Just
wondering if we are the only ones. Carla and Lonnie

Hi. My husband has been suffering with gout for a number of years now.
We've tried numerous medications, but the attacks keep coming. Right
now he has been in severe pain since Saturday, that's 5 days, and he's
going out of his mind.
Does anyone have any holistic remedies? MOst of the meds do little to
help. He's back on percocet again.

My husband has had a gout flare up that has lasted for several weeks
now off and on. We seem to be getting it under control and he is under
the care of a wonderful doctor. I am struggling with what to cook in
order to keep more flare ups at bay and put this one completely to
rest. Any suggestions as to a good cook book or maybe a favorite recipe
you could share?
Thank you

Is it possible to get gout in the elbow or could this be somethingelse?
Richy

I have continued to read the posts since I "left"..(only fitting I
guess considerring how much I had posted)although I haven't
posted/responded.I won't be able to read any/if responses to this.I am
leaving the group.
Good bye! Good luck with gout..
Arnold..

Ever since the big attacks some months ago, it never
seems to go completely away. I can always feel it a
little in my feet and ankles. Not really painful, just
irritating. In my knee too. I'm really hoping that as
I lose weight and near my goal that things will improve.

hello all,
As anyone used a product called Gout Cure, if so have you had any luck
with it. I like a drink of wine and wonder if this is a major cause of
my gout attacks. The Gout cure contains Milk Thistle,Aged garlic, yucca
stalk, artichoke powder.
Thanks, Mick

Concerning your use of a diuretic and then having
gout again...
There is a limited dose of such diuretics in
middle aged males with a history of gout.
A fairly recent study by the VA compared all
males given prescriptions for diuretics but no
prescriptions for any gout remedy and then
followed up later to see how many of those were
later prescribed gout remedies.

Sure:
"sed rate" is sedimentation rate.
Why not? Diet only contributes about twenty
percent of your uric acid levels and if you get
the level low enough, meat would be fine.
Allopurinal is usually taken without any
illeffects. Only a few people have a
hypersensitivity reaction and if you turn out to
be one of them, you simply stop taking it.

Hi All:
Just wanted to pop in & say Hi. Well I haven't had a gout attack in a
while -- & boy am I a happy camper . . . .
I'm swimming for exercise & that seems to work for right now because I
have not had any flare ups. So my question to you ladies & gents is:
what kind of exercise to you recommend for the winter, so as not to
flare up my gout in the joints? I'm brainstorimng here -- all
suggestions/ideas are welcome & greatly appreciated.
Chow,
Cheryl : )

This is my first posting and i hope that i get a response. Im under
a rheumatologist and a nephrologist and still we cant seem to get
this gout sorted out. I started off 100mg allopurinol with
colchicine (sp)...colchicine upset my stomach and allopurinol on its
own gave me bad side effects which were vertigo, nauseau and
headaches from hell. I was then put on voltarol (25mg) 3x's a day
for a short time due to my kidney disease. It was great i never had
a twinge on that stuff. I am now on 1 25mg voltarol a day and am
now almost one month into taking a very low dose of liquid
allopurinol (increasing dose weekly - to reduce side effects) for 10
weeks which should get me up to 100mg allopurinol BUT i seem to be
getting attack after attack and im completely at my wits end. My
specialists dont seem to know what to do with me and im getting no
help. In fact as my job involves walking i am now having to
consider giving in my notice and what doesnt make sense to me is
that im on the drug thats supposed to make gout disappear! I would
also like to point out that yes i do get the most incredible pain in
certain joints of my foot BUT my most recent attacks dont involve
any redness or swelling. Neither of my specialists have injected my
joints to look for crystals. Anyone any thoughts PLEASE. Thank you
so much.

I'm on lots of lists, I never thought of a gout list. I first had it
20 years ago and thought I would die. Never had another attack till
6 months ago. I had gained a lot of weight and started taking a
water pill for blood pressure. This can apparently bring on gout
attacks in people prone to them.
The first ones were in my feet, ankles and big toe. Excruciating.
I tell people the pain is exactly like hitting your thumb with a
hammer only its constant and its in your feet. The attacks would
come and go. I'm losing weight, something else that can bring on an
attack. A month ago I had the worst one yet, in my left knee. I was
on crutches for 3 days and then it moved to my ankle. Now, a month
later, it hits me again. Not as severe (the first time in a joint
seems to be the worst) and here I am, stumbling around again. Vodka
is the killer for me, I love a few drinks in the eveining and thats
all done now. I'm seeing the doc at the end of the month and am
afraid of the gout drugs, they have too many side effects. I'm
hoping the weight loss (50 to go) and no booze and no food that is
bad for gout will do the trick.
Gout is insidious and people who have never had it don't have a
clue as to how painful it is. I hear its a 7 on the pain scale of 1-
10. Only a 7?
Your in pain, Phil

Since you all have been so kind to me and so givng with all your
advice since joining this group. I have a sitution I could use some
imput with.
A little quick back ground... A month ago ended up in the ER had the
gout in the foot. Since that visit had 3 more attacks all the attacks
it moves from my knees to my wrists to my feet all over. You all know
the worst pain in the world. my x-rays came back showing just bone
spurs, my blood work came back with a "CEd Rate of 69" I guess that is
high? Since my last attach I have not eaten any meat. I have not had
an attack either so I don't know if the two are conected? Anyway the
doctor today wants to put me on Allopurinol 300 mg. I am afraid to
start is since I have been bout free for a few weeks and the side
affects sounds like if I take this medication I am going to have an
attack. Can someone explain to me what my ced rate is? Do you guys
think I will never be able to eat any meat again? Thanks for your
help with this!!!! Jennie...would sure like a burger...:)

I have had four gout attacks and not too long ago a fluid sample was taken
from the affected big toe joint. It disclosed crystals, so my doc confirmed
my gout diagnosis and put me on allopurinol (100 mg daily for first 30 days
and then 200 mg daily). I am in my third week, so have not advanced to the
200 mg level yet. I had had two tight-skinned lumps on my big toe - one over
the main joint, the other over the next joint toward the toe tip. In today's
visit to the doctor (for my 4-monthly diabetes follow-up exam) those lumps
seem to have disappeared. The doc attributed that to the allopurinol's
effect on the kidney's function. As my blood pressure was still too high (in
the 130s) to suit my doc, he upped my lisinopril dosage. He said that that
should also help the kidneys. That may be important in the gout department,
too. My new lisinopril level will be 20 mg daily. But all during the time of
my gout attacks, I was at 10 mg lisinopril daily so lisinopril by itself
must not benefit the kidney function enough to help reduce the urea
stripping from the blood all that much. I'll report back in about a few
months.

Howdy,
I got my ticket to join last wednesday, and it is here at the end of
my right foot. I am glad to find this valuable information here on
the web and am ready to contribute to it.
I am a 37yo, 6'2, 180# male with no health conditions I am aware of,
nor any previous health problems either. My blood pressure was
104/63 the last time I checked. I do eat like a pig, and up until
recently, whatever I liked. The night of my attack I think I had 3
porkchops and 2pints of blue bell. Oh well, looks like my reckless
but enjoyable eating habits are gone for good now. But the pain I
felt was enough to make me decide for a more vegetarian diet. That
pain is simply unacceptable, as well as incapacitating.
In spite of my eating habits I am mystified that I have this
condition, considering my apparent good health otherwise. However,
I have always wondered at my inability to gain weight. Recently, as
in March of this year, I began to perform some body cleansing. In
particular I was cleaning my liver. Considering it to be the
primary filter of the blood I thought it a great idea at the time.
Well, the cleanings (4 of them over 4 months)have had me excreting
some bizarre and colorful "stuff". In hindsight I have learned that
the liver produces uric acid when working normally. Yipee,
success! It must be working normally, ow,ow,ow. Lesson learned,
clean your kidneys before your liver!!!
As for what I take, well I am staying away from the prescription
stuff for now. The long term affects look kind of rough, but If
Gout persists I will likely give in to allopurinol. Ibuprofen took
the edge off the pain for me. I had some Naproxen gathering dust in
the cabinet from a prior sports injury. I wish I would have checked
this group sooner so I would have known to take it. I also am
using cherry juice, and lots of it. But I cannot tell if it is
working or not. My condition has steadily improved over the past
five days, so a definite maybe. Of course I changed my diet
radically starting from the beginnig. Am also taking 1000 mg of
alfafa, which is supposed to lower serum uric acid levels, as well
as yarrow root.
Anyways, may God speed you relief soon. I feel your pain.
Best regards,
E.A.

These reports of gout as first appearing at the
site of a prior injury is supportive of microbial
involvement and ofcourse my favorite candidate is
P. multicida. It should be borne in mind that
both Allopurinol and Colchicine are also
anti-fungal agents. Prior gout remedies were also
anti-fungal agents.
Yet the official wisdom on the matter remains:
gout is simply the presence of uric acid crystals
in the synovial fluid caused by excess amounts of
uric acid in the system.
Even the anectdotal reports of initial onset of
gout being on a Spring night do not spur
scientists to serious investigate the role of
fungal metabolites or fungal infections from
animal bites.
Those who for any number of reasons are unable to
take Allopurinol should atleast be on high water
intake and avoidance of high purine foot items as
well as avoidance of high trigger potential food
items such as sodium nitrite and beers/wines with
high fungal metabolite content.
I personally regret following my doctor's initial
advice concerning taking high doses of NSAIDs
particularly since he didn't limit the duration
of the NSAID use. I know it is difficult but I no
longer take NSAIDs and I no longer recommend
others take NSAIDs either.

Seems that any joint injury makes it susceptible to gout attacks when you have gout. Same thing for regular arthritis attacks.

I broke my big toe as a youth and have a bulge on the side of the toe
right at the 1st joint from the tip. This is the same toe that gets
gout. I once read an obscure article that implied a link between
gout
and the breaking of the big toe. I wonder if removing what I suspect
is broken- fragmented bones would help me? It is somewhat curious to
me that the attacks seem to go to the typical joint on the big toe,
but
this joint (the one closeset to the tip) also hurts but not as bad.
Has anyone heard of correcting past breaks to help with gout?
Also, what is out there to measure my uric acid myself?
Thanks,
Wade
Really like having a place ask questions as I personally know only a
handful of people with gout.

I was diagnosed with gout about 4 years ago and have gone 3 years
without an attack. I took Allopurinol (200 mg daily) and colchicine
(.6 mg daily) for 2 years, but my doctor (A Rheumatologist) and I
decided to drop the colchicine about 6 months ago. I am currently
in an Acute Gout phase with swelling and redness in the joint behind
the big toe- A new attack. My doctor advised me to start taking the
colchicine again with the Allopurinol and Prednisone (for the next 9
days). My attack this time is not as painful as before, and I
decided to soak my foot in a foot bath with the air bubble function
on
using hot water. My idea is that the hot water will cause extra
blood flow which I hope will melt away the crystal(s)once the
kidneys do their thing. This procedure is not without pain
(Somewhat understated to say the least) Does anyone have any
comments on my idea to use hot instead of cold water?
I am sure it is not new, but I do not see any info about it. Also,
I am considering starting to drink very warm water. I have consumed
around 100 ounces today of tap and some purified. Has nayone tried
very warm water when drinking fluids? Is there any reason to
beleive it might be better?
Also, is purified water a must? One last question, Does exercise
precipitate an attack in cases where many foot pounds of pressure
are put on the ball of the foot? I rode my bike and stood on the
petals to go up a hill 2 days before an attack, but I do not think
it likely that I was dehydrated. I did put considerable pressure on
the joint though. I am about 20 lbs overweight and want to loose
it. Gout ended my jogging, but I want to bike. My doctor does not
think that the bike is related as I am fairly active in my work and
off time with family, but gout has slown me down on some
activities.
Wade

I am new to this and am hoping for some feedback. About a month ago I
woke up with a horrible pain in my right wrist and both my knees. It
lasted a few days and I ended up in the ER, by that time it had
traveled to by middle toe and they said it was gout. They gave me a
shot, a prescription of indocion, colochicine and pain medication and
I felt better. About a week later in came back this time in my elbow
hands ankles and within the same day moved to my knees. I felt like I
was losing my mind. The pain was so horrible. and I have even had 2
kids, that was nothing compared to this. The doctor sent me for x-
rays. I have yet to hear back from my doctor about the hospitals blood
work or the x-rays. Within the last month I have had 3 seperate bouts
of this. I don't eat seafood at all, I don't eat a lot of red meat,
and I don't drink. I am just wondering if gout usually travels from
joint to joint affecting more than one joint at a time during the
same "Bout". Is there anything I can do for the pain? Hot v.s. Cold
etc... Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated!!! Thanks
jennie

I've never heard of gout traipsing from joint to
joint quite so fast; nor have I ever heard of
cochicine being Rx'd prior to a confirmatory lab
test and the resolution of the intial painful
flareup.
The pain description sure sounds like gout
though.
Have you had a confirmatory bichromatic light
test on aspirated synovial fluid?

Morning all,

I write this from my office, (stupidly volunteered to help out over the weekend!!)...

Now I don't have pain as such and no swelling or anything, but my legs are aching...the knees, ankles and hips even my shins and theighs (???) are aching like mad and are really stiff! I know its not muscular, I can feel it in the bones, I feel about 95!!

Could this be a gouty sign, and if so is it becasue I went to a friends house ladst not, got stinking drunk and then on staggering home fell into bed without so much as a second though for my allo tablet!!! I only realised I hadn't taken it once I had arrived at work, (was still half asleep and had a thumping head!!). Neadless to say I am drinking stacks of water (and coffee!!) to try and make myself feel a little better!

Is it possible that by missing a dose and drinking heavily I might have triggered the start of something???

Has anyone tried burdock root for gout? Its an old time blud purifier.
Thankyou in advance Don

Gout is `in' disease but toe can be healed
-Toronto Star, JUDY GERSTEL
Jun. 24
Remember Men in Black?
It was a movie starring Tommy Lee Jones.
Now read about Men in Pain.
It could be a sitcom, maybe even starring a man you know.
I heard about a man who, when he was in pain and kind of panicky, insisted
from the moment he shuffled through the Emergency Room door that the woman
who accompanied him and whom he was seeing at the time, should be presented
to hospital staff as his wife.
Probably he figured that as wife, she'd be able to stay with him and
advocate on his behalf. Perhaps he also found the faux conjugality
comforting during his distress, in the way that soldiers find God in foxholes.
Then, after the man was out of pain and the problem was fixed, as he was
being wheeled out of the procedure room to the recovery area where his
companion was waiting, he introduced her to the surgeon as his girlfriend.
Men in Pain. There's no telling what they'll do. Or won't do.
Mostly, they won't do anything. They'll just try to pretend the pain isn't
there but, at the same time, that it will go away. (The existential
complexity of this conundrum inevitably escapes Men in Pain.)
Unless, of course, it's excruciating pain, aka agony.
Agony is what happens when uric acid crystals form in the kidney (stones)
or in a joint, very often the big toe joint where the diagnosis is gout.
It's an easy diagnosis to make.
A man hobbles into an emergency walk-in clinic late Sunday evening after
suffering agonizing pain for days, holds up his foot to show the doctor how
swollen and red the area is around his big toe joint and from behind his
desk, the doctor says, "Gout."
Then he asks the gouty man how long he's been suffering. The patient thinks
back to when he wakened in the middle of the night with a throbbing foot
the classic onset pattern.
Even the bed sheet against the inflamed, hot, stretched skin felt like salt
in a wound (so he said).
"Wednesday," says the patient.
"Fool," says the doctor, adding insult to injury.
The fool gets a prescription for Voltaren, the brand name of diclofenac, a
non-steroidal anti-inflammatory and one of the NSAIDS widely used to treat
the inflammation, pain and swelling of arthritis. Gout is actually a form
of arthritis.
And it's becoming a lot more common as baby boom men advance to the age of
gout.
Men, according to the Arthritis Society and other sources, are at least
four times and as much as nine times more likely to develop gout than women.
(Do not for a moment think that I am actually enjoying writing about
something that causes excruciating pain and disproportionately afflicts
middle-age men.)
About 1 in 30 Canadians has gout. In the U.S., about 3.4 million men have
the disease, reported The New York Times this week, in a feature about
gout, making the fool with the swollen red-hot toe feel very au courant as
he swallowed his pills and rapidly began healing.
A gouty foot used to be something of a badge of honour because it was
thought to be a result of eating too much rich food, including caviar, and
red meat foods peasants couldn't afford. These also happen to be high in
an amino acid called purine, the culprit in causing uric acid deposits.
Gout was called the disease of kings and limned by poets, many of whom
suffered from the affliction which was always thought to be, accurately, as
it happens, aggravated by alcohol, or, as has recently been shown, certain
forms of it.
Famous sufferers include Charlemagne, Henry VIII, Voltaire, Isaac Newton
and Charles Darwin. Even Hippocrates wrote about gout.
More than 300 years ago, philosopher John Locke proposed a diet low in meat
and high in milk, dairy products and herbs as a means to prevent gout,
according to Toronto rheumatologist and gout expert Dr. Adel Fam, writing
in the The Journal of Rheumatology. And for the most part, Locke was spot on.
Some recent, large epidemiological studies in the U.S. have done a lot to
dispel myths about the disease and offer guidance to sufferers.
Here's some of what's been reported:
Two or more beers per day increased the risk of gout two- to five-fold
compared with no beer intake. Two or more drinks of spirits increased the
risk by one to six times compared with no spirits intake. However, two
4-ounce glass of wine per day was not associated with an increased risk of
gout.
Foods rich in purine that should be avoided include red meat, especially
offal, including sweetbreads, liver and kidneys as well as seafood
shellfish, scallops, caviar.
However, high intake of animal protein such as turkey and chicken and
consumption of purine-rich vegetables (peas, beans, lentils, spinach,
asparagus, mushrooms) did not increase the risk of gout.
Increasing dairy products (milk, yogurt, cheese, ice cream) protects
against gout.
Genetics and obesity appear to be contributing factors to the risk of gout.
There's also medication (Allopurinol) that can be taken daily to help rid
the body of uric acid.
Meanwhile, Men in Pain from gout should know that swallowing a few
prescription anti-inflammatory pills will result in relief within hours.
They may also find it interesting and comforting to know that the uric acid
crystals causing the agony are identical to the white part of the bird
droppings they clear off their cars.
After all, Men in Pain need and deserve all the comfort they can get.

I've just recently had a nasty gout attack in left toe/foot. The main period of the attack lasted about 7 days, but since then I've had 3 weeks of minor twinges/soreness on and off. I haven't had this with previous gout attacks. In general the foot/ankle seems "weaker" than it did after previous attacks. Anyone else experience similar?

Btw, I've now bitten the bullet and got an allo prescription so will be starting that as soon as possible, but don't want to start while this "twinge" phase is ongoing, as advice is to wait until an attack is completely over before starting- or am I being over cautious?

Any point in taking these?
I'm desperate to ease the pain.
Regards,
John

Although we all might focus initially on the
diagnosis of gout and then the treatment of gout
and the management of gout, the history and
reasons involved are certainly fascinating.
Most chronic diseases have some genetic component
to them even if caused by an environmental
insult. For instance, I've mentioned P. multicida
as one scientist's "real cause of gout" supported
by anecdotal information concerning animal bites
and location of gout onset as well as supported
by the fact that all gout remedies are also
anti-fungals that kill P. multocida. As with any
such microbe, there are some hosts that are very
susceptible and some that are not. Host nutrition
plays an important role too.
Most people think of a gene as a 'binary'
situation: you either have it or you don't.
However, most genetic influences on disease are
not single gene 'yes' or 'no' situations. Many
genes play a role and often its not the mere
existence of a genetic defect but its nature and
size. In Fragile X syndrome, the number of
repeated sequences is vitally important, not the
mere existence of the defect.

Hi Megan,
I'm sure your partner is a very lucky guy to have
someone who is so concerned about his health.
Its only the initial attack of gout that usually
has a nocturnal onset and usually takes place in
the Spring. It is not diagnostically significant.
His diet has two components:
The total purine content of his diet and the
specific 'triggers' that are commonly seen
amongst gout suffers.
Dietary purines are atbest twenty percent of
anyone's total purine levels in their body, so
his diet is atbest just a little bit of the
problem.
Trigger food items: such as shellfish, fungal
metabolites in beer or wine (particularly
fortified wines) or ingestion of sodium nitrite
are a different matter but this is often related
to individual susceptibiity.
Get his uric acid levels tested.
get his synovial fluid drawn during an attack and
examined under bichromatic light for a laboratory
confirmation of gout.
get him an Rx for allopurinol.
Get yourself a list of foods that are 'good' and
foods that are 'bad' and keep it in mind whenever
you shop for groceries or order items in a
restaurant, but do remember 'dietary purines' are
only a small portion of his total purine load.
Good luck.

Twinges in joints previously affected by gout..........organic or
super-tentorial?
Given that UA level is around 4.5 dl/mmol monitored.
Muscle spasms.....any grounding/evidence to suggest increased UA implication?
Nature or nurture.......

Regarding urate deposits, what is the difference between monosodium
urate an biurate?

Hi,
My partner has had two very painful episodes with his ankles and feet - the
first one was diagnosed as soft tissue damage, despite there having been no
trauma to his ankle! He was in severe pain for a week, not even being able o
put any weight on it, and unable to move without crutches for another few
weeks - it finally subsided after two months. He was ok for a couple of
weeks or so, and then the same thing happened again - not quite as painful,
on the other foot, but again no trauma was involved. He could not walk on it
for a few days. It always starts with a stiff bruised feeling, and then
kicks in hard after a few hours.
I went and looked up everything i could and gout seems to fit most of his
symptoms and lifestyle - regular drinker, on diuretics for blood pressure,
fav foods shellfish, sardines, red meat, a bit overweight...but it has not
happened at night, although it is always more painful at night. He has
finally gone to the doc (we did go back and forward to the hospital the firt
time but they were the ones who said it was soft tissue damage) and he does
not think it is gout - because that starts in the big toe - he has sent Ted
for blood tests for osteo arthritis or rheumatoid arthritis!! I have looked
both of these up and the symptoms just dont fit.
Does it sound like gout to you guys? He is not happy with my "couch doctor"
diagnosis, but I am almost sure. The only things that dont fit are the speed
of the recurrence and the fact that it doesnt start at night!
Thanks for reading this far, and I look forward to your thoughts...
Megan

My Questions for the Visiting Rheumy:
In recent studies, gout patients had higher rates
of comorbidities like coronary artery disease,
hypertension, diabetes and renal problems yet
these are usually conditions that precede a
diagnosis of gout. When I was diagnosed with
hypertension I was refused any tests such as uric
acid or any of the heavy metal tests related to
causing hypertension such as lead and molybdenum.
Do any doctors routinely perform such tests?
We have different "targets" for uric acid in mind
but one thing is clear. High uric acid levels
have some advantages, we just don't want things
too high.
One medical rule of thumb seems to be "To
alleviate attacks of gouty arthritis and remove
uric acid crystals from synovial fluid, serum
uric acid has to be kept below 6 mg/dL (360
µmol/L)." Journal of Rheumatology 2001 28:
577-580. Is it really necessary to go this low?
Is this a reasonable target?
I realize that there will forever be a dispute as
to lead levels and the causation of gout but
there certainly is an undisputed relationship
between chronic low-level lead exposure and urate
excretion. We know that people with gout and
age-matched controls without gout when subjected
to chelation therapy to remove lead excrete lead
at markedly different rates. American Journal of
Medicine 2002 113: 563-568.
What are the differences between serum lead and
'body lead burden'? Are these expensive, exotic
tests or are such tests routinely available.
Why after 30 years of lead and gout studies is
chelation therapy still not offered to gout
patients?
In Nephron 2000 86: 287-291 it was shown that men
who had suffered atleast one gout attack each and
every year while on NSAIDS did not have any
attacks at all once NSAIDS were withdrawn.
Although this study is small and has some
methodology problems, does it mean that NSAIDS
are simply too damaging to be used and that gout
sufferers would be better off without them.
Have there been any further studies on the role
of P. multicida as a causative agent of gout and
is there further supporting evidence other than
just that all gout remedies such as allopurinol
and cochicine are also anti-fungal remedies that
will kill P. multicida.

Can anyone have Gout?

Hi all,

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond to me like that, it really is great knowing there are people I can talk to out there!! I am going back to see my GP on Friday for results of further blood tests taken, (he wanted to check if the Allo had effected my Uric Acid levels 3 months on). So I am going to go armed with some points here. Interesting the point made about a possible build up over many years resulting in an attack at around 30, hopefully having been on Allo for a couple of years I can stop that happening!! It sounds a terrible condition, and although I have had 2 children and an awful lot of kidney stones, I still don't do pain very well!! :D

I was also very interested in the points made regarding diet, I was told by my GP to stop eating red meat, except very rarely, and to stop drinking alcohol full stop! Now I have never been a heavy drinker but that seemed a bit steep, having looked up some things I dicided I would stop drinking red wine, and I don't normallt drink beers or sherrys!! I already drink at least 3 litres of water a day and have done for as long as I can remember!

It is going to be really hard to establish wether or not the Allo is working for some time, the longest I ahve gone without an attack was about 2yrs and they are certainly less sever now, (although my renal specialist thinks thats more to do with me being better at handling pain that I used to be!!) If there are no bad side effects I am more than happy to take one every day in the hope it holds off the attacks, and if it can stop me having sore feet in the future all the better. Kidney stones are horrible, but at least I am able to move around with the pain!!

Would love to hear the responses to the questions put to the guest rhumatologist, and would appreciate any pointers on anything else I can do, herbal remadies, excersises, lifestyle changes etc that might help me stop that first attack happening, or at least making more manageable.

Again thank you all so much and good luck...

Em

Another question for the rheumatologist:

Seems there are numerous reports from gouties of ancillary and peripheral aches and pains that relate to gout but are not like the classic painful joint attacks. Some of these include tendonitis, foot pain other than toe joint, etc. Please discuss types of these and whether or not allopurinol will prevent or minimize the occurrence.

What effective non-prescription meds are available to gouties for pain control during the painful attacks?

Based on my experience with the medical
profession I would certainly vote for
misdiagnosis each and every time; I just don't
think they ever get things right!
The definitive test is aspiration of synovail
fluit and then examination under bichromatic
light. Not much fluid is required and if they are
not able to aspirate any, they can still do the
test from wiping the outside of the biopsy
needle.
High uric acid levels are good, sign of
intelligence, etc. Its these TOO HIGH levels that
are troublesome.
Clearly you have some arthritic problem but it
does not sound like gout.
Was there an initial nocturnal onset during
Spring?
Was there any surface redness over a joint a few
days later?
These are by no means definitive but they do tend
to be suggestive. So is there absence.
Remember, a pre-menopausal female usually has
something other than gout... but not always!

This may or may not happen, but I have a friend who is a
rheumatologist and I was thinking of prevailing on him to come in one
day when he has time and answer some questions and/or discuss
research...if folks are interested.
Hugs,
Pam

Foot gout in particular...just curious.

Hi,

I have just recently found this board and wondered if I could get some advice...I have been lurking for a couple of weeks now and you guys seem to have a fair amount of knowledge amoung you....

A bit of background about me, I live in Buckinghamshire, England, I am 27, married with 2 young children and have just been diagnosed with gout and placed on what my Dr described as the miracle drug Allo, which is going to change my life forever!! (heres hoping)

The reason I am looking for advice/help/knowledge etc is because I am not convinced the diagnosis is correct!!! It has been based purely on an incredibly high uric acid test result from about 6 months ago, having had a very high, (but not high enough for meds), for about the last 10 years suddenly it has gone through the roof and on the Allo I must go.

Heres the unusual bit, (well I think so, please advise if this perhpas isn't so unusual, as all I have to go on is the info I have found out on the net), I have never had any problems with swelling, or soreness in my joints in the way I have read about. I do have incredibly stiff hip, knee and sometimes, (although rarely) ankle joints, usually seems to be triggered by a sudden change in the weather, (not unusual around here!!) but certainly not painfull swollen feet or toes.

The reason I have been being tested for UA levals is because for about 15 years I have suffered with sever bouts of kidney stones, I can sometimes go 18 months without an attack, (being pregnant seems to help!!! Although wouldn't recommend it as regular treatment!!! LOL), and other times I can be in and out of hospital almost weekly sometimes twice a week for several months when the critters wont budge!

I have read that in sever gout cases sufferers can develop Kidney stones, but have any of you ever come accross someone getting stones first and the more recognisable symptoms of gout later in life?

I have probably been mis diagnosed again, (wouldn't be the first time - I was told by a dr at the age of 13 that the pain I was experiancing could only be was an ectopic pregnancy!!! I tried to tell them it would have to be the immaculate conception, but would they listen?? No!!!)

Anyway I digress....any pointers on this would be greatly appreciated, and I hope you don't feel I am wasting anyones time, as I said I am not convinced and you guys seem to know what you are talking about!! :D

Emma

Hi all,
I have been advised to moderate this group solely, TEMPORARILY, while
the threat of a lawsuit against me in my capacity as list owner is
being sorted out.
During this hopefully short time period in which I am the sole
moderator, your posts may take longer than usual to appear as I am not
able to be at my keyboard 24/7.
This announcement is not meant to reflect on the other person who has
been moderating or the person who has told me they wish to sue, but is
simply professional-level advice I am following until this touchy
situation has been sorted out.
In this vein, let me also say a few brief words. I had the
opportunity to visit a truly beautiful place today despite my serious
financial problems and a bad flare of lupus, and I must say I am upset
that I had to spend even one minute of what should have been a special
time for me worrying about a lawsuit from this group!
I realize people are in pain but there need to be limits to how much
stress a list owner gets!
This is a volunteer-run list, put here as a public service for people
coping with gout in memory of my grandmother who had gout. It is not
a three-ring-circus, "The Practice", or "The Shining"!
So please post gout information and posts that are supportive of one
another. I understand that tempers will flare, but the Legal Button
has been pressed and I can only approve posts at this time that do not
attack other members.
Thank you for your understanding. I've been in the car for 12 hours,
just got home, and am exhausted! Please forgive any wrong notes in
this mail!
Hugs,
Pam

My husband has to have a total hip replacement because of all of the
steroid use. It has deterorated his joint completely. So talk to your
docs about prednisone use if you are on a extremely HIGH dose for a
long time. He was for years. Just a little warning. Carla and Lonnie

Kerry - an example of fraternal charity toward your fellow listmember.
you did here to ridicule the poster, and your self-professed sarcasm is

Kerry,
This posts reflects confidence in you and Mangosteen

Kerry,
This one is my favorite, particularly in the way it expresses such
tender brotherly love for me.

Kerry, a touch of paranoia?

Kerry, this quote illustrates yur kind and courteous attitude toward
your fellow list members. And second, you DID pretend that
Mangosteen was a cure for gout in that it cured you when traditional
meds didn't work.

Kerry, here is a "believer".

Do you have a guilty conscience?

Kerry,
Here's definite "legal proof" (in your own words) of your "altruism"
and "honesty" with regard to Mangosteen, in the following array of messages:

As you wish.

I think you said once that you had gout in your family history. So,
could these things be tophi?
Alan

Hi all,
I looked in on this group from the hotel where I am staying at in order to give
an out-of-
town presentation tomorrow; looks like I won't be back till very very late
Sunday night. It's
ironic to me that it's on making support groups run smoothly, people-wise ;)
I'm not all that sure why tempers are flaring again in the group THIS week, but
I'm involved
in another group which is imploding over the issue of whether prayers should be
allowed,
so maybe it's something in the stars!
When I get back I will go over the latest messages carefully and see why folks
are upset.
Also, anyone who wishes to can email me directly at xbeepx@... to discuss
anything to do with the group.
The topic of what we called "Unproven Remedies" was a hot one even in the early
90s
when I worked as a Health Educator for the Arthritis Foundation. People who had
spent
too much time and money on them before getting effective mainstream medical
treatment
natuarlly had strong feelings about the issue, as did people who were helped by
one or
more of the alternative treatments who did not respond to or were unable to
tolerate or
afford mainstream treatment. Different rheumatic disease groups have chosen
different
ways of handling this issue, from what I have seen.
I personally was brought back to some nice memories of vacations in Maine by the
black
fly post, as I used to go there in the very early spring or late fall to avoid
the critters ;)
Mangosteen I haven't tried, but my bro-in-law wants to sell it. I confess to
wondering
what it tastes like, but that's just the kind of silly thing I would worry about
;)
I'm really tired. The lupus is attacking my red blood cells and giving me a
draining
anemia. So having a co-moderator really helps me. Alan volunteered to help and
as I
remember he was the only one to do so, although if I'm wrong on this please let
me know.
I also didn't want all your messages pending in a queue when I was (and I am
occasionally)
away from the keyboard!
Anyway, what would be really great IMHO is if we all started talking again about
gout
now...
my feet aren't completely clearing up, and I'm going to have to find out if the
Things on
them are lupus vasculitis or Something Else.
Hope all of you are well and a big hug from me,
Pam

I have neither whined nor carped at any time. My
post in recognizing value in each of the two
messages and sticking to gout-related issues was
an attempt to spread some calming oil on troubled
waters, but it was not whining or carping of any
sort!

While the tone and tenor of the response to the
Black Flies post may well have been totally
uncalled for, the points made in each post do
have merit.
I've never been to Maine during Black Fly season
but from what I've heard its quite possible that
one would be too distracted to even notice a gout
attack. (lol).
Ofcourse, the months for an initial gout attack
are, I believe, March, April and May. I don't
know if any months are more likely for subsequent
gout attacks.
Arthropod saliva does affect cardiac problems,
but I know of no studies relating it to either
the onset or the recurrence of gout.
I too would think that this particular poster's
past profile of gout attacks would be relevant:
if such attacks were frequent and distributed
throughout the year but never during Black Fly
season that is of interest. Ofcourse if the
poster happens to take a vacation to another
state to escape Black Flies but encounters a gout
episode that might be even more interesting. I
doubt however that this will be the case.
However, I do admit that it is biologically
plausible given the pathogens transmitted in
insect saliva.
Allopurinol is cheap, but Black Flies are even
cheaper, though I suspect not quite as effective.

Hope our co-mod will be around to approve messages, but if your
messages wait in the queue it is nothing personal!
Normally I have computer access most places I go but it doesn't look
like I will this time :)
Going to give a talk on, believe it or not, support group
facilitation! LOL.
Hugs,
Pam

Hi all,
Am currently suffering through my 2nd attack (the 1st was almost 5
years ago, and naproxyn took care of it w/in a couple days). Have been
on oral steroids 6 days (prescribed by a doctor I saw while traveling
abroad after naproxyn did not do the trick, though I got started on it
late, and probably didn't take enough). Anyhow, I've seen almost no
improvement over the past 5-6 days. Am visiting my regular doctor
later today and will ask about getting switched back to another NSAID
(maybe indomethacin), getting a definitive diagnosis (i.e., presence
of crystals -- my uric acid levels were only borderline high when I
was tested 5 years ago) and getting on allipurinol.
However, I am beginning to wonder when I'll be able to put a shoe back
on! For those who can remember their first few attacks, how long did
they generally last? This one's already pushing two weeks and,
although I'm not experiencing the exruciating pain I was in days 3-4,
I'm still unable to really walk -- except for limping around the house.
Wade

as a resident of the great state of MAINE, I noticed I never have gout
attacks during black fly season, which lasts typicaLLy from mid may to
mid july, I have noticed this over the last 3 years, anybody else here
notice that?

Although not familiar with Canadian health care,
I think the aspiration of synovial fluid and the
later lab test under bichromatic light would not
be the domain of a specialist. In the US, it
would be the work of the initial doctor that you
saw and only after the gout was confirmed might
you be referred to a specialist in rheumatology.
Certainly a lab test for uric acid levels would
not require the referral to a specialist.
I now realize that your additional health
concerns may indeed alter your personal situation
away from the "statistically average" patient,
but since there is still some doubt as to its
actually being gout I would try for the tests.

Hi All,
I guess I should tell you a little bit more about myself.
I have other health issues, which might make gout a more plausable
diagnosis. I'd like to hear what you think.
But before I get into that....I should say, that living in Canada isn't
always a plus when it comes to health issues. We have long waiting lists
for specialist physicians. And because of it, the family physicians tend to
err on the side of being conservative, before sending you out to see a
specialist. Trust me, if I get another flair up of gout....i'm demanding
the specialist.
Okay, back to my health issues.....I've had my thyroid removed due to
Thyroid Cancer. And part of my treatment was radioactive iodine. First of
all, this can cause menopause-like effects at an early age. Also, it can
damage your kidneys as it travels out of your system. And on top of that I
am kept clinically hyperthyroid for the rest of my life.
My thinking is that the high metabolism puts me in a constant state of
dehydration. I admit, i'm a big coffee drinker and although i don't drink
much booze, i do drink often. ( Scotch ) And i'm not much of a water
drinker.
So my feeling is that even if my uric acid levels aren't as high as
some....it might be enough to cause the gout.
What are your thoughts?

Hi April. You sound like a "dynamite chick" who
has a very understanding and a very lucky
boyfriend, but I don't think you have gout.
Atleast I do not think there has been an adequate
basis for you to have been diagnosed as having
gout.
You should have serum uric acid levels tested.
There is no way you can have gout and still have
lab tests that are "fine".
The definitive diagnosis is to have the doctor
aspirate a small amount of synovial fluid from
the affected joint and expose it to bichromatic
light as a confirmatory test of gout.
Remember, females usually do not have gout until
their estrogen levels plummet. So its a rare
diagnosis and one that seems unsupported by the
usual lab tests. Its not impossible, but it is
unlikely.

No attack since easter last year , No allo, no cochicine . maybe Im
pseudo gout and the fact im reducing my heavy metal body burden is
working,, Acute lead poisoning is a factor in gout . I am high in all
metal
I dont take pharmacueticals.of any kind . If you do its cool , not
one aspirin for me ,, I am not the poster of good health, I drink
beer every day(many)eat as much meat as I want ,,try not to eat fried
food
eat whole wheat as much as I can , cause refined flour linked to
diabetes ,,,Alkaline diet as much as I can,, because we are talking
about uric acid , I would have had at least 3 attacks this
year ,crossing my fingers ,,, I am grateful
Yeast eradication is definately a factor (Acidophilus)
i take extra everything vits and antoxidants
I have been questioned if I even have gout at all by the group
Yes i do , but maybe pseudo induced from liver rhenal shutdown
I am no stranger to the pretty hacksaw that calls me to cut off an
appendage
I could be in pain tommorow. I think that my removal of my
mercury/silver amalgams has kept me from an attack,,I am by no means
healed, ,,, but no gout (knock)Heavy metal get it out by chelation
sauna etc etc If my foot swells I will take whatever i need allo
colchicine, I know the intensity, But I have been through 3 of my 25
attacks without pain killers, I feel better and feel like i wont have
another attack, I welcome all comments, but know the only research
ihave done is on me and my experience with my pain , my doctors and
the internet.Its all out there,just being suppressed
Gout ///mercury/ lead
yeast //candidiasis
acid//alkaline
any of these

Well, my boyfriend thought it was quite exciting to know someone who had
such a "Victorian" disease. I believe it has been said that gout is the
disease of kings...and the king of diseases.
I'm not too impressed with my new Gout diagnosis.
My toe started aching completely out of the blue. I thought i broke it and
had some sort of hairline fracture. But I couldn't remember injuring it.
Although i did trip on an uneven piece of sidewalk...maybe that was it.
So...after an xray...... with no evidence of fracture i went home with my
sore foot and hoped for the best. After about four weeks it started to feel
fine. I could walk on it again and i thought i was in the clear...well that
only lasted for about two days...and then BAM. The joint swelled right up
and the pain increased by a million. I could barely walk.
So...i went to Emerg. And they tested my blood levels...and they were fine.
They did another xray and it was fine. But there was NO WAY I was going
home without some sort of pain medication!!! The physician gave me some
Indomethacin...and said...if this fixes the problem, you have Gout.
Well....i have Gout.
I'm actually getting some orthotics to help with the joint pain. Does
anyone else on this list have them? Essentially they are regular orthotics,
but the area of the toe has an extension that will keep the joint from
having to bend too much. (It will make my shoes more rigid in the area of
the toe.) I tried a pair on....and i was in heaven. I could actually
walk...even in the middle of my gout attack.
Oh, i am being rude....i should introduce myself.
My name is April.

I wonder if ingesting the peel is supposed to be
some sort of gout cure. Its purpose in nature is
to deter animals from dining on the fruit.
What basis is there to think that lemmon peel
would form some sort of gout cure or would act to
alleviate excess uric acid?
I am, as you well know, in favor of exploring
alternative treatments and alternative views of
causation. I think a skeptical view and a
tendency toward iconoclastic thinking is good,
but there should be some sort of biological
plausibility involved too.

Available in UK via:
http://www.amlonline.co.uk/

Hi , Anyone got any good tips appart from ibuprophen on how to get rid
of a severe attack in my ankle
, cheers

Ive been dealing with my gout for about 12 years now, tried just about
everything, my therapist recommended raw lemon juice(not from
concentrate) apparentLy citric acid and uric acid don't like each
other too much!....ive been on it daiLy 4 about 6 weeks, seems to work
pretty good so far, iLL keep yaLL posted...thanks PhiL

Do they exist? A quick STFW does not give me an immediate direction in which to
go.
There seems to be a plethora of allergy/cholesterol/fertility/pregnancy stuff
hitting the
intermither, surprisingly UK available. A Uric Acid homekit, I guess, would
obviate the
ongoing need for hospital bloods and enable self-monitoring and eliminate the
empowerment-loss in dietary terms that we all suffer. It would be worth a lot
to me to be
able to monitor levels given various dietary variations.

Hi all. My not so brief intro: am a new member in the midst of my 2nd attack
(the last was 5 years ago, and was quickly stopped after a couple days on
Naproxn). Have had some 'twinges' since my 1st attack but have always had Naprox
nearby, which prevented a full reoccurance. Forgot to pack it, however, on my
current overseas trip and did not get on it until my symptoms were pretty
severe. 3 days worth did not have any effect so have switched to Ibuprofen
today, which isn't doing much either. Need to catch a plane back to the U.S. in
6 days and will be in deep sh*t if I can't lick this by then. Mine effects my
left instep and makes it impossible to walk long distances (think airport
terminal) or wear shoes. Have read here that a cortocosteroid shot may be my
best bet but would rather not have to navigate the Hungarian medical system
unless absolutely necessary, particularly if not covered by insurance (anyone
know what the shots cost?). Have never had an attack last more than a few days
(am on day 3 of 'imobility' now) so am unsure how long it will take to run its
course if I just stay on the Ibuprofin/Naprox. I'm thinking I'll search out a
shot if I don't turn the corner within another 48 hours or so. Would be grateful
for any advice (or recommendations of good specialists in Budapest!).
Wade
ps - don't take Allo (though may now consider it)

Physical inactivity during a lengthy flight and
resultant circulatory problems might well
contribute but the primary cause of a gout
flareup related to flying in an airliner would
likely be the prolonged dehydration and
inadequate fluid intake.
Cabin air is run off the bleed air from the
compressors and this is part of the 'fuel cost'
for the flight. Pilots often try to save a bit of
fuel by keeping the passengers at a pressure and
humidity that is not really beneficial.
Females who work in silicon valley chip-making
'clean rooms' have high breast cancer rates; so
do flight attendants. Each spends their time in
an atmosphere that is very dry.
In an airliner, the dehydration would affect
kidney functioning and uric acid clearance
probably just enough to re-activate a gout
condition.
So, walk about the airliner on long flights or do
some sort of leg exercises as you sit. Keep your
fluid intake up, particularly your water intake.
One easy way to find out what the effect is: take
a fairly long flight in a small airplane at low
altitude. You will have the same lack of exercise
but you will not be as dehydrated as if you were
in an airliner.

NEW DRUG COULD GIVE GOUT THE BOOT
SOURCE:DAILY MAIL
DATE:10.05.2005
THE DAILY MAIL REPORTS THAT THE NEW DRUG FOR GOUT IN 50
YEARS,FEBUXOSTAT,IS UNDERGOING CLINICAL TRAILS IN BRITAIN.THE DRUG
WORKS BY LOWERING LEVELS OF BLOOD OF URIC ACID,WHICH CAN CAUSE THE
EXTREMELY PAINFUL CONDITION.GOUT IS ON THE INCREASE IN THE UK AND
CURRENTLY AFFECTS AN ESTIMATED 250,000 PEOPLE.
THE DAILY MAIL REPORTS THAT THE NEW DRUG FOR GOUT IS IN THE CLINICAL
TRAILS IN THE UK.THE DRUG,KNOWN AS FEBUXOSTAT,IS AN XANTHINE OXIDASE
INHIBITOR AND THUS PHARMACOLOGICALLY RELATED TO ALLOPURINOL.IT
IMPROVES THE SYMPTOMS OF GOUT IN THE SAME WAY,BY INHIBITING URIC
ACID SYNTHESIS AND REDUCING ITS BLOOD LEVEL.[EDITORS COMMENTS:THE
NEW DRUG IS CHEMICALLY DISTINCT FROM ALLOPURINOL AND MAY THEREFORE
HAVE A DIFFERENT ADVERSE EFFECT PROFILE-WHIC MAY BE A POTENTIAL
BENEFIT FOR SOME PATIENTS.IT IS CURRENTLY IN THE STAGE 3 TRAILS IN
THE UK,WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S UNLIKELY TO BE LAUNCHED HERE FOR AT
LEAST A COUPLE OF YEARS]
REPORTED IN THE DAILY MAIL FOR THE 10.05.05,VIA BMJ UK HEALTH NEWS
HOPE THIS MAY GIVE YOU ALL A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.
GAEL LEAR

Bottom Line Health magazine
In the past 35 years, no new treatments have been introduced to relieve gout
(an inflammatory joint disease resulting from excess levels of urates,
deposits of uris acid salts). NEW FINDING: After treatment with FEBUXOSTAT,
a new gout drug awaiting FDA approval, 81% of patients had healthy urate
levels of less than 6 mg/dl, compared with only 39% who took 300 mg per day
of ALLOPURINOL, the drug most often prescribed for gout.
Michael A. Becker, MD, professor of medicine, rheumatology section,
University of Chicago Medicine Center.
Best wishes,
Davo

I've not taken any poll.
I'm sure there is a difference between the
effects of alcohol and the effects of various
trace components of alcoholic beverages.
Gout flareups can be blamed on alot of things.
Often the patient may even blame a gout flareup
on the correct thing.

Hi ALL
Just found you all out hope you are keeping the gout in order.I find
it a problem which has not got any pattern to it.one day its fine, you
eat the same things a day later then it comes along a bits you in the
Bum wham thats it for a number of days.
Iam 42 had gout for a number of years, one of the problems i get it
when i fly away on holiday which upsets the whole holiday does anyone
no if flying can create an attack?
Can anyone tell me any ways of holding it back or good ideas to help
the pain on a attack.
Cheers
Gael

My understanding is that while some people have
hypersensitivity reactions to allopurinol for the
most part patients do not and you need have no
excessive fears on the issue of long term use.
Certainly long term non-use of allopurinol is
very serious. So I'd continue taking the
allopurinol. I know of know specific tests that
should be ordered for long term effects
monitoring.

Anyone know if long term use of allopurinol is dangerous to the liver
or other organs? I'm on the allo for life. Do I need to be monitored
on a regular basis? If so, how often?
Thanks

First, thanks everyone for helping to get people to the poll. If I do
one again, I'll make sure to put a link in the e-mail. :D
Second, wow! I realize that this is a small sample from a distribution
that isn't normal, but I still didn't expect that almost half of the
respondents would be having 15 or more drinks a week on average. I
don't know why I am so shocked by this, but there IS an elephant in the
room. And the elephant has gout!
So, with alcohol playing such a prevalent role in gout, why is there so
much consumption of it among a group like this? Don't worry, this is
coming from a diabetic that can't do without chocolate once in a
while. :D
It would seem clear, though, that this much alcohol sustained over
years would have an impact on several of your body's systems - just
like high blood sugar sustained over years does.
Other comments?

my name is dennis ive hadsevere gout for 10 years does anyone know how
to clear gout uip when you have the infectoin in a finger were
thewhitestuff iscoming out i put cream on it but it helpsthen comes back

I think there is some confusion about the location of Rick's poll..

The concept of a food allergy is not a difficult
one. Some sort of hypersensitivity reaction to
ingested food items is common but most people
expect a reaction that is systemic and manifested
by specific symptoms.
The concept that any arthritis much less gout
would be 'triggered' by food is disfavored since
it is thought that synovial fluid would not show
any sort of immediate response.
I'm not at all sure that food hypersensitivity
particularly to such items as fungal metabolites
in fortified wine should be so readily dismissed.
Obviously it would not cause gout but would
merely trigger an attack in a person who already
had very high uric acid levels.

Now then,
Bin digestically subscribed for a little while and I have to say that my story
has similar
features to all that are here, and yet there are differences.
I can remember having a "cricked neck" at age 17 which contributed to me failing
my
driving test. Apart from being a crap driver:-)) I suffered "acute necks"
through college
which resolved after 4 or 5 days but were sodding painful. No meds other than
analgesics
needed.
Acute necks were exacerbated on starting work 'coz of posture. Usually OK
whilst working
but would go for a Golfing weekend and be f!skd on the day because the neck was
crook
having had a jolly good night preceding:-)
Me Doctor tentatively tripped round "fibrositis" and eventually suggested a
blood test to
lookit uric acid levels. Age 25 (and a bit) me levels were 35dl per wossname.
12 years later had the first toe swelly do. Weren't too bad 'coz it lasted 48
hours and
ibuprofen sorted it, but it started at about 9am and manifested slowly.
Seen the Doc after the third attack who sent us for bloods. 65 per wossname.
Thought
age 25 levels were significant too. Got to stage when I couldn't pay footy with
the boy
because I knew that the toe would dominate for the forseeable future having been
competetively exercised.
I wish I had been on board with the concept of UA loading at that stage. The
kinda
supersaturation/precipitation was not available to me at that time, well until
last month in
reality.
Explained to the Doctorgod how it was, went Allo with Diclofenac Sodium as NSAID
cover
for two weeks.
Went well for a while. No NSAIDS, just allo. Loadsa beers and a pig out curry
(Kashmiri
Leg of Lamb.......) popped the wheel nuts. How good is this med then I asked
myself?
Knackered for a fortnight when the motorcycles were here. Blox.
Age 40, got an itchy rash...(stop sniggering at the back) bitch of an itchy
thing on arms
and legs, got infected and extruded Staph Aureus. Skin Consultant changed Allo
to
Sulphinpyrazone, mainly with an "f" not "ph" these daze. Poss allergy. It
weren't.
Doing well on the present meds. Loadsa water works OK. Acute free for about 6
years.
Very aware of purine/pyramidine levels but no too bothered about diet, which
incidentally
is not abused............as much as it was.
All the males on me Mam's side have gout. When I had me first "can't stand the
breeze on
me toe" attack, she was surprised that it had taken so long given that I
resembled her
family so closely.
Mined ewe, I can have a bit of a sore toe, for whatever reason and I sweat like
f!sk in
anticipation of an attack. Sometimes I think I only remember how horrid the
last attack
was and that I was not really there:-))

Yes Welcome to the weird world of Gout!
I had ny first identifable attack at 31/32 when I used to train a lot
at the local gym - I used to think it was strain until one day I
could hardly walk (ankle had swollen up) doctor diagnosed Gout.
After that I had an attack every couple of Years - so didn't think
much about it - when I got an attack I would take Naproxin.
When I got to about 39 I was getting an attack about once a year.
by about 44 I was getting an attack every 10 months or so. Now at 47
I am getting attacks twice a year and in between attacks at night I
get these sort of pinching sensation in and around my feet. - Nothing
noticable during the day just at night- weird.
Same as you sometimes an unpleasant ache sor of feeling ina joint.
Take a Naproxen and it goes. Sometimes it doesn't and I get an attack.
Sometimes the attack is 1/2 days - my longest has been 3 weeks.
I have tried all the herbal stuff - I am taking apple cider vinigar
stining nettle capsules, celery extract. I have cut down my alcholhol
(particularly Beer) anddo feel better. But I know that the gout is
always near and getting ready for a big surprise attack.
Before I go for Alpo I want to get a Uric acid monitor and just
check to see if there is anything I can do to lowerit naturally.
It's a long fight on all fronts!

Alcohol has been referred to as the "elephant in the room" in this
forum recently. I think we should set up a poll regarding how much
alcohol is consumed by the list members, just to see how big the
elephant is. So I did. It is anonymous, of course.

Hi all,
Just joined the group... I was diagnosed with gout when I was 27. I'm
a heavy drinker and had been noticing that the day after a binge I'd
feel like I had a mild sprain in my big toe... these "mild pains" got
progressively worse until I had a full fledged attack which left me on
my back for a couple weeks - I'm sure you're all familliar with how
painful gout can be. Changing my diet to vegetarian (but continuing to
drink) I noticed a drastic change in the number of and frequency of
attacks. The thing I'm currious about is the difference between each
attack, they are rarely the same: Sometimes I'd wake up the next
morning in extreme pain while I'd been fine before, other times the
attacks come on slowly and get progressively worse as the days go by -
sometimes developing into a really painfull attack, other times just a
mild pain that goes away. Do others experience a variety of different
attacks, or do you have the same experience each time? I've posted a
couple photos up as well.

Quite correct. The 'fungal metabolites' in
certain wines and beers are not thought to act by
elevating uric acid levels. They are far to 'fast
acting' for that anyway.
One researcher has commented that P. multocida
may be the real cause of gout and has noted that
Allopurinol and Colchicine, the two most widely
known and effective treatments, are also
antifungal drugs. A separate researcher in
Australia has posited that the sudden
exacerbation of gout often caused by 'alcohol
intake' is in fact caused by the trace amounts of
'fungal metabolites' contained in the alcoholic
beverage.
If anyone whose gout is significantly and
promptly exacerbated by alcoholic drinks cares
to, they need only establish the 'minimal amount
of wine/beer' that causes such a gout flareup.
Then go out and drink even less than that amount
but of a wine such as a Spanish or Portugese wine
which will have fairly larger amounts of fungal
metabolites in it. If this smaller but more
loaded dose causes a flareup then you have a
pretty good indication that it is the fungal
metabolites and not the alcohol. Myself: I'll
just enjoy the occasional wine and beer and be
happy that I'm not particularly sensitive and can
therefore indulge from time to time without
having to limp away from the table.

I ain't no traditionalist and I sure ain't no
mango guzzling hippie swallowing herbal
concoctions and chanting on a hill top!
The conventional viewpoint is 'uric acid' and
nothing but uric acid. I merely mention of the
ancilliary causes or exacerbators of gout that
have been posited by researchers: molybdenum, P.
multocida, fungal metabolites, etc. I do not
advocate abandoning allopurinol in favor of
unknown herbal remedy touted by the
manufacturers.
As to foods: uric acid is only partly due to
dietary intake of purines. Therefore any dietary
modifications can only affect a small portion of
your uric acid levels. However, consumption of
cherries is not necessarily a bad thing since
even a slight decrease in uric acid might 'tip
the scales' a bit.
It might be helpful to use quantitative rather
than qualitative tables for foods. As long at the
studies are not too ancient the data should be
reliable.
beer/wine are on the list not so much for their
major constituents, alcohol, but for the trace
ingredients particularly the fungal metabolites
that would be in wine. I occasionally consume
'cadaverine' and 'spermine' and 'putrescine'. All
those of you look askance because you recognize
word roots such as 'cadver' 'sperm' and putrid',
need not worry. I am merely drinking an
occasional glass of wine.
I also occasionally consume the exact same
chemical as a skunk uses for its defense. In
other words, I drink a cold beer from a nice
frosty mug on a hot summer day. I don't have gout
flareups due to an occasional glass of beer or
wine.

someone last month mentioned a uric acid blood monitor that was made
somewhere in Asia.
Does anyone know the site or where I can get one of these in the UK?
thanks

1) I've been watching with interest the "volley ball game" being
played out here between the traditionalists,i.e., those who back the
use of allopurinol, indomethacin, colcichine, etc. versus the
homeopaths,i.e, those that favor the use of various natural, non-
medicinal remedies such as mangowhatever juice. I tend to side with
the traditionalists. However, one potent arguement the
traditionalists have failed to raise--unless I missed some posts--is
cost. Mangowhatever juice is not cheap--did I read in the posts $40 a
bottle?? Cherry juice or its concentrate is not exactly free either.
On the other hand allopurinol, indomethacin and colcichine are all
relatively inexpensive. I checked on the Costco website and 30 50mg
tabs of indometacin was about $8.89. Ditto for 30 300mg tabs of
allopurinol. Colcichine was about $13.50 fo 30 .6mg pills. PLUS, if
you're covered by health insurance meds are covered whereas
homeopathic remedies usually are not. It might be cheaper to not
submit it under your insurance if you only need 30 tabs a month as
the price from a discounter such as Costco or one of the online
pharmacies might be less than your co-pay. (More on that in a later
post.)
2) I have read, been told by my doctor and unfortunately learned
through PAINFUL experience that one substance that may bring on a
gout attack is the grand daddy of all NSAIDs, aspirin. Apparently it
interferes with the ability of the liver to extract uric acid from
the blood stream. Never take aspirin to alleviate gout pain. If
you're on an aspirin regimen for heart health purposes, raise this
issue with your doc.
Regards.