Interested in gout

Damn, they really hurt.
Supposely my pain is from the lupus rather than gout, but a friend of
mine who is a rheumatologist told me I should go get evaluated
specifically for gout Just In Case and because my grandmother had it
(I started this list in her memory).
I was not aware that gout runs in families?

I've had complaints that there is no gout discussion going on but only
people who wish to announce that they are leaving, joining Arnold's
list, or want to know where Arnold's list is.
As you know, I posted the link to his list for those of you who
requested it, which is probably more than he and Walter would do for
me. (I'm still upset about being insulted for my efforts in keeping
this list going for many years).
But the above type of posts will not appear for some time so as to get
this group back on the track of providing gout support and information.
Now I hope to see some gout posts :)

The address for it, for those interested, is

It seems almost every message is an announcement of people going over
to Arnold's list.
Please post to this thread if you have any interest in continuing to
read or post on THIS list. If I get even one person I will keep the
list up :) But if EVERYONE is leaving I'll take it down.
Also I would like to have a volunteer or volunteers to co-moderate
(delete spammers etc.) this list.
with thanks,
Pam

I joined this group a couple of weeks ago, asking for info. on Uric Acid meters.

During these last two weeks I've learned a lot. I'd like to share what I think I've learned, and end with a question / plea...

I'd been working for the last 10 years on the following line of thought...

"I seem to be able to keep my gout inflammation attacks down to one every couple of years or so by diet control. When I do have attacks there is always a 'provocative' meal in the preceding few days to explain the attack. My assumption was that I had let the uric acid level get above the saturation level' for a few days, causing the crystals to form and hence the inflammatory response. As long as I can be successful at diet control, I can probably avoid the life-time commitment to allopurinol. Maybe I should get a self-admin uric acid meter so that I can check, weekly, that my diet is keeping the uric acid level below the 'critical level'."

That's what I *was* thinking.

What I think I've learned from Arnold, Walter and others is a different picture...

"The urate products are building up all the time. The crystals are there all the time and slowly accumulating. What's more they may be causing other damage, e.g. replacing calcium in the bone by soluble sodium urate (or whatever - I'm no chemist). When the inflammation attacks occur it's probably because the body has become 're-aware' of the presence of the crystals etc. The mechanisms could be a removal /thinning of protective coating due to (alcohol-induced) dehydration combined with perhaps an more-sensitised immune system activated perhaps by the protein load in the stomach. "

"In other words, when (four weeks ago) I had venison and red wine it was perhaps not the additional short-term purine (==

This second picture, along with the lurid descriptions of the kinds of long-term damage that can be occurring, have caused me to consider going onto Allopurinol right now.

I've been back to my doctor this morning. He freely admits that he's not up-to-date on Gout research and had not heard of this line of thinking. He asked me if there was a web site telling this story, with links to the underlying science, that he could see for himself.

Well, is there such a site?

If there isn't, it would help this list enormously if there were. I sense that Arnold, particularly, gets very frustrated at having to give the same advice over and over again.

It might make it much easier for the 'regulars' to give advice if newbies, such as myself, could be told:

"Go and read the introductory web site at ... then come back and ask for help again -

saying which bits you didn't understand / agree with".

Tactfully done, it could lead to a much more informed level of debate here, and avoid the regulars having to re-type the same advice again and again and again.

As for me - my doctor and I have agreed to re-check Uric Acid levels and kidney functions, then have a discussion about Allopurinol again.

So where can I find that web site, or other science sources backing this new view?

Chris Haynes

I will be out of the office starting 27/04/2005 and will not return until
09/05/2005.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to the Human Resources team: Eileen Harvey, James
Lavin, Rosalind Thomas, Wendy Roberts, Azita Sayer or Geoff Mitchell.

My grandmother had gout, and there were days she couldn't walk.
However, it was mainly just in her big toes!
I have lupus, but sometimes my big toes get really painful despite not
being in a lupus flare at the time. Just wondering...!

I'm starting my own little gout group.GOUT HELP(GOUTHELP)Come on
over..say HI!..If you need help with gout..it WILL be THERE.There
really aren't very many questions about gout that I can't answer.Not
much about gout that I don't know.Fully expect me to be JUST as nasty
as ever.I may..MAY.. go back to being just as nasty as I have been in
the past.IF I have to.IF that is what it takes to help someone.As a
tool..expect that I WILL use it...IF need be. You will ALWAYS! find the
un-moderated HELP,TRUTH and the FACTS about gout there.
Arnold

Molybdenum is a heavy metal, probably necessary in minute amounts but
often present in soil and water in excess and some researchers believe
it has an effect on the incidence of gout and other arthritic
conditions.
Pasturella multocida is a microbe that one researcher now retired from
a medical school in San Francisco believes is a primary cause of gout.
He is in the minority on this belief but the assertion that a fungus is
responsible is not without a certain foundation in biology since the
two presently used drugs, allopurinol and colchicine, are each anti-
fungal agents and a previously used treatment was also an anti-fungal
agent.

i am 39 and have had a battle with this hellish problem for several
years. I usually manage a couple of years between severe attacks.
There was a problem with diaignosis in the past but this last attack
saw levels in excess of 630. Started out in left foot then ankle
then went to knee and then if not bad enough as that started getting
better went to the right foot.
I am overweight and hypertensive to boot. Ugly circle. I have
managed to get down 20 lbs on two occasions then whammo.....gout
sets in and i get set back......not this time......I hope.....I am
down almost 20 lbs again and continuing to suffer like a dying dog.
I would prefer kidnes stones....if that possible.....
I had cortisone in my knee this time and worked great...took a long
time to get swelling fully under control and back to full motion.
I read a posting on strawberries and i have to say it worked for
me. It removed the pain almost magically.....redness and swelling
is still thee at times but pain is GONE.....well at least for the
time being.
I am off to my doctor tomorrow afternoon and i am demanding
allopurinol......
I dont care if it is 50 pills per day I am at witts end with pain
and discomfort and sleepless nights.....
I am taking back my life!!!!
This is my first posting and I thank you all for your input and
ideas!!!

I've had gout for approx. 8 yrs. first in all different places in my feet, now in both of my knees, I've had bad circulation (hereditary) since my late teen years, my "Q" is, does poor blood flow increase the effects of gout or should I just take my allo and nothing else, blood thinners etc.

I am 37 and have had several bouts of this dammed Gout. This last
bout has been on-going since Early February....Hit in my ankle then
toes and then knee in left leg and then as if that not enough, went
into right foot. It is hell!!! Taken all the drugs and had all the
side effects from a-z. I was at witts end.
I read about the strawberries and tried them. It works!! IT WORKS!! I
have an appointment with my doc tomorrow and am demanding
Allopurinol.....I cannot take the pain anymore. I have had kidney
stones in the past and I would rather that pain as opposed to this
current condition. I am overweight and also have high blood
pressure. So I am batting 100%......I am trying to remove the weight
but that also has an effect on the uric acid levels.
Dammed if you do and Dammed if you don't. Desperation is what set me
to the strawberries....i still have the stiffness and redness in right
toe box but pain not there....so if eating a few red berries helps
eleviate the unberable pain...then bring them on.
I am glad to find out about this group and look forward to reading
more and more!!

What is the nature of the pain suffered by those
with gout during the intervals between the acute
gout flareups?
I know my first gout episode did considerable
damage to the joint and I think that the pain I
feel between attacks is more properly described
as due to the now misshapen joint that due to
some sort of 'lower intensity gout'.
Although some on this list do not want to deal
with the topic of heavy metals, particularly
lead, on gout, one issue that seems relevant is
saturnine gout. This is a lead induced gout that
seems to be pain free between the acute flareups.
Are the lead levels indicative of recent exposure
or an exposure that took place a long time ago?
What tests are involved?

I wrote
It is a little like religion.
If someone don't know about allopurinol, then they are ignorant. If you
do know about it, and certainly the individual does know about
allopurinol based on their responses to specific messages, then they
are foolish to contend that strawberries are a cure for gout.
I made that statement and I stand by it and it is neither made with
malice nor is it in any way an erroneous statement.
Anyone is free and able to do whatever they wish in trying to deal with
the gout monster. They are not free however, to make statements that
are misleading or are factually incorrect when the pain and suffereing
of others is involved.
Playing a foolish game with your own health is permissable and people
do it all the time. Heroin consumption, eating too much etc. there are
numerous examples. The line is crossed, however, when someone advocates
to the rest of us that treatment (A) works and that treatment has no
valid scientific evaluation behind it. It is both irrisponsible and
dangerous.
It feelings are hurt that's too bad. Hurt feelings are worth keeping
the gout monster from other peoples door.

The difficulty with anyone who wants to respond
with 'Allopurinol' to every post that even hints
of a different focus is that this drives away all
the posters who would later be contributing to a
variety of topics.
I got tired of raising the topic of the role of
molybdenum and only hearing about allopurinol or
raising the issue of the role played by P.
multocida only to hear nothing but allopurinol.
When one scientist's research dealt with the
effect of sodium nitrite, the response was
allopurinol. Even a discussion of the seasonality
of gout onset: why always is the first attack at
night and why so often in the Spring has lead to
a discussion of allopurinol.
Allopurinol is cheap. There are some who have a
hypersensitivity reaction to it. There are some
who are less than convinced that it is as safe as
it is generally thought to be. Yet even those who
take allopurinol and intend to continue to take
allopurinol are interested in a discussion of
other issues relating to gout without hearing a
constant tatoo of allopurinol.

It is time to get down to the strawberry nitty gritty. Dosage. How many
ounces of strawberries should a 150 lb 76-year male eat per day in order to
get the desired effect.

I will be out of the office starting 19/04/2005 and will not return until
20/04/2005.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to the Human Resources team: Eileen Harvey, James
Lavin, Rosalind Thomas, Azita Sayer or Geoff Mitchell.

Congratulations to those who have found
strawberries to be helpful.
Most often recommended are dark cherries. Far
less often strawberries are recommended. There
seems to be a difference of opinion as to
cranberries.
Usually these are recommended as some sort of
anciliary measures that you can take in addition
to whatever other measures you take to lower your
uric acid levels or lessen the pain of gout
flareups caused by continued high levels.
Occasionally, these anciliary measures prove
sufficient on their own and only an occasional
uric acid test is needed to monitor the
situation.
To the extent that some researchers think gout is
really caused by an infectious agent, the
cherry/strawberry routing would prove
particularly interesting.
Masking? Well, alot of pain relievers work by
causing pain. So all they really do is 'mask' the
more severe pain by causing a milder pain that
the body reacts to.

Greetings all - a newbie to this list here...
I find advice like 'don't eat too many purines' useless in any
practical sense; how many is 'too many'?
Are there any techniqes etc. for self-monitoring of uric acid levels
so that one can monitor the effectiveness of dietary control techniques?
Also, is there any way of working out / measuring what the critical
contentration is for causing preciptation of uric acid crystals in any
particular individual?
In other words, how can I adopt a 'scientific' approach to
self-management of uric acid levels. I feel it ought to be possible
to have some kind of daily / weekly metric such as "Today: 70% of
critical level, yesterday 55%, last week 45%" and so on.
I suppose I'm looking for a Gout equivalent of a diabetic's blood
sugar self-assessment kit.
Is there such a thing? Could there be?
Chris Haynes

Strawberries and My Gout:
I have found a miracle solution for my gout which has gotten worse, with more
frequent
and incredibly painful bouts. It even moved from my feet to my elbow recently.
I've had all the drugs from my doctor, and I've eaten cherries until I couldn't
stand another.
None of it worked.
My wife brought home a flat of strawberries from the school where she teaches,
and they
sat in the fridge for a couple of days. Everytime I'd open it, they'd be sitting
there, going to
waste. I had read somewhere that strawberries might actually exacerbate the
condition, so
I was reluctant. But I was in real pain, so I tried it. As God is my whitness, I
ate a half of a
box of fresh strawberries and two hours later I was a new man. After taking
Alipurnol,
colchicine, and vicadin when it got really bad, strawberries have proven to be
the gout
killer. It doesn't just give me relief, it I feel like I barely have gout now. I
eat a handfull
every other day, and have smoothies, and I haven't had a bout or even a threat
of one in
three months. This week I decided to really test it. We had a party and there
were friends
from Puerto Rico here. The last time they were here they brought a bottle of
fine rum. I
broke it out and we had a fun time. I also ate chocolate, ice cream, red meat,
and drank 3
beers, all within 2 hours. This cocktail combination would have proved deadly
before I
discoverd strawberries to be my saving grace. But the only thing I was feeling
was hung
over!
If you are suffering from gout, try strawberries. Eat a whole box, every day for
a week. You
can scale back as I did. The anti-oxidents in strawberries seem to have given me
a psudo
cure, not just immediate relief!. I am a new man. More invigorated. My head is
more clear.
I have much more energy.
The only thing I've done is I've gotten off the pills and am eating lots of
strawberries. I've
also not had coffee for two months. But I'd been wanting to give that up for a
long time
Try it and send me an email. I want to know if it's just working for me, or for
others too.

NSAIDS are often Rx'd in the initial stages of a
gout attack and only after the acute gout attack
has subsided are Allopurinol and perhaps
Colchicine also Rx'd to treat uric acid levels
rather than merely treating the symptoms of pain
as the NSAIDS do.
I have a belief that NSAIDS are far more damaging
than is currently believed and that gout
sufferers in particular are injured by the use of
NSAIDS. I'm presently going over some of the
comments at an Evidence Based Medicine site on
gout wherein uric acid reduction is emphasized
but the text is ambigous as to whether an initial
NSAID use was involved or not. More later ... .

Add yourself to Faisal's address book!
Open your invitation

Hi everyone
I will look in bookstore about foods.
I was told not to eat eggs,so far on my list,I dont eat pork,
ribs,hotdogs,peanuts,cashew, beans
will thank u all.
David/fatpapa

Hi everyone
I have gout for many yrs.
I was wondering What foods to avoid.
I am on pills but lately it seems I got gout.
is there a webpage I can check out on what not to eat.
I know I need to lose weight
Thank you
David/fatpapa1952

Over the past 2-3 years I have had 4 episodes of gout pain. The first time
was major ouch, the last three have been mini's. My first doc put me on
indomethacin and the second doc changed that to colchicine. I am a Type 2
diabetic and the second doc, my diabetes doc, was worried about indo's
effect on the kidneys. Anyhow about 10 days ago I started getting a big hurt
in my foot but not in the big toe. It was half way between the little toe
and the heel. This gradually morphed in to a hurt when walking, during the
ball-toe roll-off. The third doc, a podiatrist, looked at the swelling some
x-rays and decided to inject hydrocortisone in to the big toe joint. Within
two days the swelling was way down and since then no big or little hurts in
the foot. Maybe what I was going through wasn't gout proper. Comments,
anyone.

I posted about this a while ago.Uricase.I came
across "Rasburicase"..synthetic uricase.This allows uric acid to mix
with water,blood,other fluids/Hence good bye deposits,crystals.The
resultant mix is alantoin sp?(I'm tired).EASILY disposed of in urine.It
is being used on adults..I couldn't find any clinical info/tests.Tests
on children..show a pretty strong increase in disposal of uric
acid,urate..alantoin..in their urine.

A year ago after persistent low-level gout attacks and a serum uric
acid level of 7.8, I started a once-a-day dose of 300 mg of
Allopurinol. My attacks subsided and then disappeared after about 6
weeks of treatment. Now, my serum level is 4.6. I would like to reduce
my Allopurinol dosage to a maintenance level, since I have the
impression that excess Allopurinol does no good and is just
metabolized away.
My question is whether an every other day dose of 300 mg would be
effective or do I need to maintain a consistent level of Allopurinol
in my blood stream and should split the dose and take 150 mg daily?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Your kind and thoughtful postings
are what originally convinced me to face my gout and start treatment.
Thank you.
Carl Youngmann

O.K. guys I just started my first dose of this stuff today; a 1/2 of
pill for the next 10 days then a full dose thereafter. Hope this stuff
works & does not send me into another gouty arthristis attack.
Cheryl

Has anyone used MSM to help prevent gout from reoccurring rather than
going on allopurinol or colchicine?

Would like to know if anyone had problems with colchicine in possibly
causing bone marrow suppression/severe anemia after using it on and off
for many years.

my mom has put me on combinatoin of pills ive been real bad for 12
years i havnt had a attack in 3 months if anyone want the
combinatoin they can email me at shady041172@... something is
working

I am 34 m and recently had my first attack of gout which
subsided with Indomethacin.
My uric acid serum level is 8.9.
My doctor has asked me to go on Allopurinol 300 mg
for life long !!
The idea of being on a drug for rest of your life is scary !!
I was thinking of asking my doctor if I can wait on starting
on Allopurinol until my second attack and in the mean time
reduce weight, drink gallons of water etc.
Anu suggestion ? What are the negative consequence/s of
not going on Allopurinol immediately ??
Kedar

Much of it comes from an Evidence Based Medicine
site known as Bandolier. Its url is somewhat
confusing so I guess the best thing to do is just
use a search engine to find evidence based
medicine and Bandolier.
The most important study there is the one that
showed bring down uric acid levels helped
immensely and men who had previously had multiple
attacks every year went to zero once their uric
acid levels were lowered even if they were not
lowered quite to the usual target levels.
If you are not familiar with terms such as Meta
Analysis its okay, you will understand the site
with little difficulty.

I know water is the best thing to drink. But what else is good or
bad. I drink alot of Gaterade or Pepsi. I was told the Gaterade was
bad because of all the minerals in the drink. I drink the gaterade
to get away from the pepsi. Anyone know the good or the bad things
to drink, or where I can find a good list of common foods.

I can understand some caution but you should be
clear that he understands the difference between
high uric acid levels and uric acid crystals in
the synovial fluid. A bichromatic light test of
synovial aspirate confirms gout, even if the
crystals are few in number and uric acid levels
are lower than expected. They would tend to be
lower in a female anyway.
I think you are right to avoid NSAIDs, they do
evil things to the kidneys.
There was one study with very few subjects in it
but the main thing learned was that bringing down
uric acid levels is what prevents future attacks.

I will be out of the office starting 23/03/2005 and will not return until
29/03/2005.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to the Human Resources team: Eileen Harvey, James
Lavin, Rosalind Thomas, Azita Sayer or Geoff Mitchell.

I came across one study recently wherein
Allopurinol at low dose was worse than
no allopurinol but Allopurinol at greater
than 300mg had a protective effect on
later heart trouble.
I'll be looking for more studies and getting
specific citations soon.

Oh Gran, I am so sorry to hear of your pain.

I feel so bad complaining when all the things I have read on here are worse than mine...... forgive me!

I did go to dr today for gout flareup last night. I had read about the thyazides being bad in aggravating the gout or causing it or something....and I take hydrothorazide (water pill) so he said to stop it. He is a wonderful dr but if I hadn't of done research I wouldn't have known it and he wouldn't have told me. It is so true that we have to be in charge of our own health.. I asked about allopurinol (heard about it on this group and on message boards) and he said it was a horrid drug and he didn't want to give it to me.... if this gout continues I think I best find a rheumotologist! they would know far more right???

Gran if you want to email me privately please feel free, may I say I will pray for you?

The God of the mountains is still God in the valley~ Irene

Hi
Is it safe to take colchicine then paracetamol a few hours later. Our doctor prescribed it for my dad but with his heart and kidney problems i'm slightly worried of him taking it.
Richard

Hi
My dad took colchicine last night and it stopped his gout attack
however the swelling in the foot is still present and has changed
areas, is this normal?
Richard

Hi
My dad took colchicine last night and it stopped his gout attack however the swelling in the foot is still present and has changed areas, is this normal?
Richard

I am writing to ask about kidney stones and gout? Yes we know they
come along with it. My hub and I went to doc last Oct and went on the
past Friday for a check up. Well in Oct gout level was down finally
to 6.5......this time it was 6.7.....so working on lowering it
because it used to be 14 and over. Well here is the problem. His
sugar was high this time and it also shows only 50 % of his kidneys
working? So we are a little scared. He had a total knee replacement 3
or so years ago and it went horrid. His bowels, liver, kidney and
intestines shut down completely. Was in the hospital over a week. Now
this on the blood test. He is having some troubles around the lower
back and around the front some. Little tenderness in the groin area.
Doc is thinking a kidney stone. Did a urnine test and redoing kidney
levels in 2 weeks. Took him off meds all but pain meds and
sulfinpyrazone. Does anyone know that kidney function so low would be
from the kidney stone if it is trying to come out. Not to sound to
graphic but he has had a little blood on shorts at times past week or
two , in the front of them not the back. I am just worried and he is
worried. His doc is so great with us. Just thought maybe some of you
in the gout group could help or reasure us somehow. Thanks and have a
great evening. Carla and Lonnie/OHIO

just started a week ago on the allopurinol and am in worse pain than
before I was on the med.
anyone try something other than allopurinol with better results? or
is allopurinol the best out there for now?

Hey all,
My father is 82 and has the gout in his toes. He has recently lost
one toe due to this. Circulation is good and he is NOT diabetic.
The doctors told him that he would more than likely looe other toes
and he has one now bothering him. It gets red, or course, and puffs
up. He has been soaking it, but he also says that the doc told him
to keep his feet dry. Now my daddy is a heart patient who is very
active and young looking for a man of 82, BUT, his thinking and
memory is not good at times.
My question is, should he be soaking this foot, or what can he put on
his toe. It was painful today. He takes daily medication and this
seems to help more so than just taking it when it flares up. Hope
you can help him.
Rita

I would think the joint pains point to some form
of arthritis, the high uric acid is not
definitive for gout. Were any of the joints
tested? Bichromatic testing of synovial fluid
from the knees would confirm gout. Otherwise it
might well be any number of other arthritis
related conditions.

Glad to see a support group for gout...as this condition is far
from being fully understood, hence why colloboarting with others can
be ones best chance of releif.
I have severe heel pan, similar to plantar faciatis, sometimes
confused or connected wtih heel spurs. The pain is excruciating,
worse than broken bones, which I also experienced many times. I am
convinced I have pseudogout, a condition similar to gout, except the
crystals are formed by a calcium compound, not uric acid. Although I
have been told by the medical community its just a bad case of plantar
faciatis, (which I have suffered for 30 years on and off) I know this
is not the cause for the severe pain, but could be the cause of small
residual pain. Through some web research, I found a tad of
information that eluded to celery dissolving these calcium crystals.
However, I never read the same for the same effects it would have with
gout. I have been tested for uric acid several times and I am always
in the "normal" range, which further leads me to beleive this is
pseudogout. After eating 3 full heads of celery, the next mourning I
woke up with 80% of the pain removed. This convinced me my problem
was not physical, but rather chemicaly related. If I only consume
celery or celery juice and nothing else I can get near perfect
releif...but once I start eating "gout safe" foods, i.e. those
accepted on the gout "approved" list, the pain comes back....
Does anyone have any experience with this condition? Any
treatments you have found? Most research I have done concludes there
is no medical treatments for this type of gout. Thank you all in
advance.
Regards
Bill

Can one have kidney stones with high uric acid content, joint pain,
and not have gout?
All of the problems I have seem to point to gout but I'm not obese
and I don't have pain in my big toe. Just in my back, ankles, and
knees.
All replies welcomed

Did anyone catch the program "House" on Fox last night after
American Idol? Its another doctor/hospital show (although I have to
admit not as boring as some of the others). The main story line in
the episode dealt with a kid with an unusual set of symptoms that
they eventually traced to accidental colchicine overdosing (the
pharmacy gave him the wrong pills when he went in for cough
medicine). I think they overly dramatized it but it was interesting
to see our beloved GOUT and meds discussed on a mainstream TV show.
I can't remember ever hearing gout discussed on a regular TV show
before.
As an aside, I'm into old Ford Broncos and whenever one shows up in
a TV show, commercial or movie there are a rash of "Bronco
sightings" posted on the various enthusiast boards. I thought this
was an amusing variation of that concept :)
Dusty

Hey all,
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas re: why allopurinol (with initial use)
can
precipitate attacks. I've searched and found lots of sources that say
allopurinol may
cause attacks at first, but nothing explains why this may be the case.
Thanks!
Chandler

The blood pressure medicine Cozaar (losartan) tends to lower uric acid levels in the blood. Has anyone tried this drug? Did it help your gout? Sorry if this has already been covered--I've missed a lot of messages lately.

We joined this "gout group" last Spring when my husband was finally
properly diagnosed. Though some people questioned my posts at that
time, my husband had a bad reaction to Allopurinol and had to stop
taking it until his liver functions returned to normal. It's been
about 8 months since he's off of the Allo, and this last blood test
was his first normal one. We are very careful with diet now hoping
that a reduction in weight (lipids & sugar) will help the liver as
well. He would like to start taking Allopurinol,but the doctor
won't let him. We mentioned Probenecid which was mentioned often
enough on this site, but it isn't sold here (Israel). The doctor
said that there is a new drug from Japan called Febuxofax (can't
find the proper spelling) which he is recommending over Probenecid
which in either case, we'd have to get from the U.S.
My husband is taking colchicine tabs 0.5 mgs twice daily. Since he
is in the middle of an excruciating debilitating attack, he got a
shot of cortisone last night & anti inflammatory tabs for 7 days (as
needed). It seems like a miracle, but he got up this morning and is
able to walk nearly pain free and able to go to work. We realize
that the cortisone shot is a first aid solution but not something
that will help the long term need of getting rid of the uric acid.
So here's where we need advice. Any positive input about a way to
get rid of the uric acid deposits would "sorely" be appreciated.
Another questions which I saw addressed, but didn't notice a
reply.... since gout is supposed to be hereditary, what can we do
today, to help the next generation avoid this problem?
Sorry if this seems a bit long winded and thanks for your help and
support!

Hi All:
I'm new to this group. I had wt. loss surgery approx. 4 weeks ago.
I went home from the hosp. Tues. & did great until Thurs. Then the
weirdest thing happened. I could not get up off the couch by Thurs.
night. I ignored the pain/swelling just thought it was
my "osteoarthristis" flaring up due to not taking the Celebrex becuz
of the surgery.
Well needless to say for 7 nights & 7 days I literally screamed my
head off in pain until my surgeon finally admitted me to the
emergency room. He thought I was just being a wimp because of not
taking the Celebrex. Well low & behold they checked me for
bloodclots -- none. They called in a specialist & in 30 min. he
disagnosed me with this lovely Gout. I didn't realize at that time
that this was another form of crippling arthristis just like
osteoarthristis. Well I'm having a very hard time accepting &
dealing w/ all of this stuff because the reason why I had the wt.
loss surgery in the first place was because of my severe
ostethristis. Well know after having the surgery I'm also stuck w/
this gout. So I am a little overwhelmed at the moment trying to
take all of this in.
Any advice for a newbie to the gout stuff. Will it ever go away.
The doc put me on prednisone for 1 week & I felt great. Well as
soon as I took the last pill the next day my gout started flaring up
again. Please any advice would be very much appreciated, as I am
having a very hard time accepting this disease along with all of the
other lovely things regareding the wt. loss surgery.
Thank you kindly,
Cheryl

Hello fellow gouties.
I've been subscribed to this group for years but had turned off
receiving the messages by email a year or two ago because there
never seemed to be any new or useful information, just the same
tired old list of "bad foods" and home remedies. Out of curiosity I

I will be out of the office starting 25/02/2005 and will not return until
14/03/2005.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to the Human Resources team: Eileen Harvey, James
Lavin, Rosalind Thomas, Azita Sayer or Geoff Mitchell.

Has anyone tried apple pectin for Gout pain relief. A lady where I
work has used it and swears by it.

I have been told that by drinking water that gout attacks can be
avoided can anyone help? Is this rumour and wishfull thinking? Are
there any other ways of reducing general pain levels?
Daryl

If gout is caused by the body being very acidic, how do you become more akaline and what tests can you do before/after anything tried?
thanks

I have been wearing Birkenstock clogs for the past 3 years. I think they are
the Boston style, with the wool instead of leather. Doesn't get anymore
comfortable than that, if you can deal with the look.
http://www.birkenstock.com/styles/60463/

Well, my hubby had his calf shut up in a car door when a little
younger and ever since that leg has had gout attacks many times and
it makes it hurt worse. It will get red and flare an atack. It is
like it attacks the bone in that leg and reacts to the injury. Not
really sure if it would be the same on everyone or not. Just our
opinoin through out the years. Carla/Ohio

During my gout attacks I've found out that only my Bär shoes (that
are made here in Germany) were comfortable to walk in. The shoes
leave so much space to the toes, so that it seems like that I'm
walking barefoots.
For information: Bär Shoes is an upmarket catalogue selling high
quality, handmade leather footwear, designed after the natural shape
of the foot. Bär shoes are designed to guarantee the upmost comfort
all day long no matter how long you stand or walk throughout the day.
The products in the Bär Shoes catalogue range from the house-shoe to
the heavy duty hiking boot. Rather than mass producing their shoes
Bär employ series production to ensure that the manufacturing is of
the highest quality.
There are Bär shoes dealers in Germany, France, Belgium, Austria,
Spain, Italy, Sweden, U.S.A., Japan and Kuwait. When interested, you
could check out their website at www.baer-schuhe.de (unfortunately
the site is in german only, for an international dealerlist: select
the "Fachgeschäfte" tab).
Tom.

Which vitamin did you hear was a 'trigger'?

I will be out of the office starting Wed 02/16/2005 and will not return
until Wed 02/23/2005.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to the Human Resources team: Eileen Harvey, James
Lavin, Rosalind Thomas, Azita Sayer or Geoff Mitchell.

I looked around at the database and found that a trigger is a
vitamin supplement.......We had heard this before but never talked to
anyone who had this problem. So we went and got a multivitamin and
after a few days of taking it my hub had a gout attack. We have also
found that certain fish make it flare up. His uric acid levels were
around 14 and above and then after starting the Sulfinpyrazone it has
dropped in the past few years down to 5.6 .....He is losing weight
also and working on things to help this. Wondering if anyone would
know of the age to get children tested. My 15 year old son has a lot
of leg trouble. Never had the redness or anything but he is really
tender and has a lot of pain in them. Been xrayed for arthritis and
nothing showing. I know this can hit but not sure on if a Doc will do
a blood test or not . Thanks Carla

Hello, I am a wife of a man who has had gout since early 20's. He
has gout all over the body. We go to a specialist now and he said
that my hub has the worst case he has ever seen. A lot of Tophi all
over the body, hands, feet, arms, elbows,just all over. He was on
Allopurinol for years and never got better. To find out his system
couldn't handle the med. His Doc got out a old med that is not used
very much. The name of it is Sulfinpyrazone. He is also on
Colchicine,prednisone, Indocin, and Percocet for the pain. Since
being on the Sulfinpyrazone he has been gout free pretty much since
starting it. Just wondering if anyone here takes this? Or has any
ideas on helping the Tophi disolve.? Thanks for letting me join the
group. Oh by the way I am 37 and hub is going to be 50 in Sept. We
have plenty of boys 5 of them and worried that they may carry gout.
Thanks again. Carla in Ohio

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Hi I'm 34 and have recently (2 months ago) been diagnosed with Gout by
my GP.
I first went to the Doc with pain in both feet (not the big toe) but
in the sole and edges of my feet. The doc did a uric acid test and it
came back positive. Since then I'm now on 300mg of Allipurinol a day.
My q's are:
1) Does this sound like gout?
2) The allipurinol hasn't had any effect on the pain/soreness in my
feet. When I play golf football my feet become very inflammed.
3) The pain in my feet is fairly constant (2 months worth) and at its
worst in the morning.
4) If i don't have gout could the Allipurinol be having a bad effect
on me? What would happen if I stoppped taking it.
5) Are there any specialist I could see, may GP thinks its all down to
drinking read wine.
Cheers
Owen

I realize this will be rather informal and
unscientific but I'd like to hear from gout
sufferers who have had lab tests that showed them
to have either high or low copper levels and I'd
like to hear about anyone's lab tests that showed
any unusual ALT test (alanine transferase).

I would like to know if there is a listing
anywhere of the benefits of uric acid.
I know that previously there have been posts
about uric acid being a 'trigger' for the immune
system.
I also know its serves as an anti-oxidant in the
respiratory system.
What else?
.......

Based on the overwhelming reply stream I judge that the interest in
this subject is so high that I'll continue with my wesson oil and
water analogy.
Uric acid is not completely soluble in all proportions in wesson oil
nor is mono-sodium urate completely soluble in all proportions in
water. Literally your blood is an aqueous system, that is, it is a
water based medium with the salinity, the salt content, of sea water.
So just for fun lets take wesson oil that is saturated with uric acid
and place it in contact with water that is saturated with sodium
acetate and shake the system and lat it stand for a while. What will
happen.
The sodium acatate will react with some of the uric acid in the
wesson oil and it will neutralize it which will form sodium urate and
acetic acid.
Now, lets push the limits of solubility of sodium urate and uric acid
in both the water and the oil and put in more sodium urate than the
water can hold and more uric acid than the wesson oil can hold.
What will we get.
Of course this is a simple minded explanation but the uiric acid will
form a semi solid goo of uric acid. The water will contain extra mono
sodium urate and those crystals will be deposited all around the
water layer. If the system is shaken and mixed, as in what you do
whan you walk, there will probably be some urate crystals that float
into the oil layer and you will probably get some urate crystals
physically imbedded in the uric acid goo just because both are solid,
or semi-solid. The semi-solid goo stuff is the stuff of trophi and
the crystals are the monosodium urate that percipitate out in your
toe and create the inflamation reaction that we all know and love to
not have.
The reason I bring thest things up is that gout is most often-not
always-but very very frequently associated with being over weight and
the mention of the relatin to high blood prewssure has been brought
up and i want to cover both of these things.
First the high blood pressure. Do a search in Goggle on hypertension-
(high blood pressure)- and uric acid. What you will find with almost
no effort is that in laboratory study after study in rats, dogs,
mice, even cats, and clinical studies involving people, there is a
direct, measurable, and predictable increase in blood pressure
associated with increasing levels of uric acid. That's correct. The
high urate levels we all run is also causing high blood pressure.
Take allo and your blood pressure goes down. Is it the allo that
reduces the blood pressure? Not really but indirectly yes. The allo
will stop more urate from forming, the kidneys will slog away as they
always do at removing the urate, and your blood urate level will
fall. Abra ka dabra--so will your blood pressure.
Lets go back to the oil in water and look at a system where there is
no solid urate in the water and there is no uric acid in the wesson
oil as solid but a system in which both the water and the oil are
saturated with urate and uric acid respectively. This is the
situation most of us lived in just before our gout attacks started.
Now, for whatever reason, we either decide to lose weight or we go
through a period where we are not as hyungry as we were-lets say you
fall in love- or lose your lover and lose your apetite and you start
living off of your stored fat -i.e. start to lose weight. What will
happen?
The fat layer is essentially saturated with uric acid and you are
selectively removing just the fat from the overall bottle. We have a
magic membrane that will selectively allow the wesson oil molecules
to pass through but will not allow the uric acid molecules to go
through. The system that was in equilibrium will now have excess uric
acid and it will start to percipitate out. some of the excess uric
acid will go into the water solution as urate and monosodium urate
crystals will start to form and in the oil the uric acid goo will
start to form.
It is a relatively simple concept to get your head around although
the specifics of how much of the urate can be tolerated and where,
where is very complex indeed, the fact remains that, when you start
to lose weight your body will remove adipose tissue and the uric acid
will be left behind and therefore the overall concentration of urate
in your system will be increased and you will be more succeptable to
gout attacks.
Anectdotal summary-
When I first got gout it was after having injured my knee by falling,
nothing to do with gout per se, and I was relatively immobile and
gained about 20 pounds. After regaining my left wheel, I went back to
the exercize routine, lost about 12 of the 20 pounds and and bam-a
gout attack. My first. I did not associate it with the weight loss.
Gout better after 6 weeks and of course gaining 6 of the 12 pounds I
had lost. Lose more weight-bam a gout attack. This time longer gout
bout and managed to eat my way all the way back to the original 20 I
had gained. Gout gone and this time thinking about maybe I had
injured myself to make the gout come back, I exercized but more
slowly and carefully, and at about the same milestone, only 8 pounds
from my goal, a really big attack this time-Damn exercize. It is
causing my gout--
Well again it is true but it is indirect. The exercize helps with the
weight loss and the weight loss reduces the fat content and that ends
up raising the overall uric acid level which percipitates a gout
attack.
Sorry for the lecture but to some it is new material. Get your uric
acid level down. If you are a newly stricken gout victum, get
yourself on allopurinol and rejoin humanity.

I have a good question for you:
What is the best type of footwear for someone with gout in both feet
AND ankles? The tennis shoes I bought are "low top" velcro, and I
had to buy them 2 sizes larger for my swollen feet. Would a "high
top" be a better choice for support? If so what do you recommend
for new gout sufferers?
James W

Arnold et. al.
Uric acid is an organic acid.
It is a solid at room temperature, it is soluble in organic solvents
and it stays mainly in the adipose tissue of your body. Adipose is
the fatty tissue-so, for all intents and purposes, uric acid is
stored in the body in and around the fat in your body. If you take a
jar of water and put wesson oil into the jar and shake it up, the
fat, that is the wesson oil, will stay on top and the water will sink
to the bottom. In reality there is a small amount of the wesson oil
dissolved in the water and a small amount of the water dissolved in
the oil but the amounts are so small that it is not worth mentioning
how much. If you take a salt, like good old sodium chloride and put
it into the jar and shake it up, the salt will dissolve in the water
and none of it will dissolve in the wesson oil. Similarly, if you put
an organic compound, like for example cholesterol, or motor oil, or
tri nitro toluene into the jar and shake it up, be careful shaking
tri nitro toluene-all the organic compound will dissolve in the
wesson oil and none will dissolve in the water.
OK so far so good.
The fact is that organic acids, are substances that behave like other
organic compounds for solubility except that they are acidic, which
means they can be nutralized by a base, for example, by sodium
hydroxide. When that happens, the organic acid is converted into a
salt.
A dramatic example of this is acetic acid. Glacial acetic acid, that
means pure acetic acid, is a clear srong smelling colorless liquid
that you can pour out of a bottle. However, when you nutralize acetic
acid with sodium hydroxide and then remove the water that is formed
by evaporation, you get sodium acetate. The sodium salt of acetic
acid is a solid with a high melting point, very soluble in water and
it forms crystals in water when the water gets saturated with it.
By analogy the sodium salt of uric acid, specifically the monosodium
salt of uric acid-mono sodium acetate, is also a solid with a
relatively high melting point and the properties of the salt are
entirely different from the properties of uric acid. Uric acid is
what is in trophi. Not monosodium urate crystals. Trophi are painful
because they are a deposit of something that the body doesn't need or
want and they are a lump that is uncomfortable because it is a lump
but uric acid deposited in a trophi does not cause an inflammation
reaction like the crystals of mono sodium urate do.
If you shake up the contents of trophi into that jar with wesson oil
and water in it, the uric acid will dissolve in the wesson oil.
Virtually none of the contents of the trophi will go into the water
solution because it does not contain the crystals that kill your
feet. Similarly if you shake up the contents of the fluid in and
around a gout inflamed toe, in that wesson oil and water, none of the
crystals will go into the wesson oil and all the crystals will
dissolve in the water.
If you have so much excess uric acid in your system that you are
forming trophi, you need to be on allo and get started with the
process of removing, by way of your kidneys, more uric acid-as urate-
each day than your body produces. Allo blocks the production side
which allows your kidneys to get rid ot what was made before you
started allo.

I was just wondering aloud and have a question for everyone. Four
years ago I was prescribed Atenolol(Tenormin) for PVCs(palpitations)
at 25 mg daily. My doctor and cardiologist said the PVCs are benign
but since they bother me the atenolol was prescribed to slow them
down. My resting pulse plummeted from around 80 bpm to 50 bpm which
is the norm for atenolol usage. Not too long after I started
developing gout slowly (took a couple attacks over the years for
diagnoses). Can the fact that my heart is beating slower(less blood
circulating) cause more uric acid to settle into joints instead of
keeping flowing in the blood with a stronger faster heart beat?
Maybe my physiology is all screwed up here but was just wondering?
Does not hurt to ask!

i have just been diagnosed with gout, i am a 27yr old male and
sometimes the palms of my hands, and the soles of my feet become
irritated and swell up what type of medication can i take, and is
gout currable. Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you systematically ingest sodium bi carbonate, baking soda, you
are increasing your overall system supply of basic elements and
reducing your overall availability of acidic components. However, the
total amount of pH change you can bring about by a few spoon fulls of
baking soda is absolutely insignificant relative to your total pH
factor in your body and I seriously doubt that you would be able to
consume enough bicarb to actually alter the balance. Similarly, if
you look at your total acid/base food intake, you will notice that
you are consuming significantly more acid in terms of carbonic acid,
cirtic acid, ascorbic acid, etc. than the amount of socium
bicarbonate you consume and overall you will not affect your system
at all with the bicarb addition to your diet. The body is an
extremely complex buffer system that acts agressively to move the
system pH to certain levels. Attempts to move that overall pH will
have short term effects on stomache pH and blood pH but the system
will rapidly readjust.
But, just for the sake of argument, lets assume that you end up
altering your overall pH by the staggering amount of 0.1 pH units and
lets say that you are able to do that on an ongoing basis.
What would that do?
If your blood is saturated with monosodium urate, which it most
certainly is if you have gout, it will change the concedntration of
monosodium urate in your blood by -how much? It will not alter the
equillibrium concentration because you can't maintain an equillibrium
concentration above saturation for very long. Sorry. it just doesn't
work that way. The slightly increased blood pH will just be
neutralized by more uric acid and it will force urate to percipitate
out somewhere else, probably in your toe.
Regardless of what it does locally and overall in your system, it
does nothing to get at the fundamental problem which is that your
system does not get rid of as much uric acid as it is producing. Uric
acid that it is producing from breaking down the food you are eating
and producing from breaking down the various cells in your body that
die on a daily basis and must be consumed and eliminated. It does
nothing. It does not affect that uric acid factory and uric acid
export mechanism and this, although it may have a temporary effect on
local conditions, it does not do anything about the fundamental
problem.
Now, if you are taking allopurinol, that will affect your system
dramatically -vis-a-vis uric acid in that allo will stop the
production of uric acid. The production side, from food digestion and
from cell digestion, will be stopped. The removal process will
continue, crippled as it may be, it will continue and eventually your
system will remove the excess uric acid and your gout will go away.
Changeing the pH balance will not do anything at all to alter the
overall uric acid level. Nothing, nada, zilch....
However, and this is something all of us who have gout and who are on
allo must at least undsratand and deal with in our daily lives,
We do not stop the process of digestion of decayed cells or of
food because we are on allo.
We just stop the production of uric acid and we stop it at a stage
where two other chemicals are left in our system. Those chemicals are
toxic and they can and will cause us problems.
So what can we do about those chemicals that are left in our system
when we take allopurinol. We have to fluch them out of out system and
make sure that there is plenty of water to do the flushing.
The problem, and habit, all of us get into, is that we will stop the
religous drinking of water after six months of no gout attacks. We
don't really decide to stop ingesting water. We just don't have that
constant pain that reminds us that we need to take that extra water
and in my opinion that is a very real and very dangerous situation
for all of us. I am certain that each and every one of you who is on
allo has been there and done that but don't let it happen.
Don't let it happen to you.
If you are taking allopurinol you are loading your muscles, your
heart, your lungs, your brain your kidneys and every organ and cell
in your body with 10 to 1000 times, in some cases even 100,000 times
as much of the two chemicals that are left when the uric acid
production cycle is shut down and no one, I repeat no one, knows what
the long term effect of those chemicals will be on each individual.
It is not a natural state and you should insure that you do not
subject your body to that state for very long.
Drink you damn water!
Drink more than the average person and you will not have to worry
about it.
However, if you allow yourself to become relatively dehydrated and
you do it on a regular basis, you will be subjecting your bodily
tissues to very high levels of chemicals that may dramatically affect
your overall health.
So it you want to take bicarb, have at it, it won't hurt you and if
you want to drink lemon juice, vinegar and cherry juice, have at it
too, but if you are on allopurinol and do these things or not, make
sure you drink three extra glasses of water each and every damn day
you eat that little allopurinol pill.
Drink extra water and enjoy the life that allopurinol gave back to
you.

My 16 year old son was diagnosed today with familial juvenile
hyperuricemic nephropathy - aka Juvenile Gout. He has a family
history of Kidney Disease and he has been having severe joint pain
and swelling in the knees and elbows as well as his hips for several
months. Yesterday his big toe swelled to over twice the normal size.
Today he started taking allopurinol and colchicine but he is still
unable to walk without severe pain and he is angry, sad, and scared.
I hope to find support, advise, and understanding here!
Cindee aka "Bubba's Mum"

It is true that uric acid will precipitate into
crystals at only a very narrow pH range. I think
there have been prior posts on this topic.
However, it is the pH of the synovial fluid in
the affected joint that would be relevant or
atleast the pH of the blood tissue or urine.
Temperature? There have been posts before about
initial attacks generally being in March or April
and generally occuring at night.
All these ofcourse are also indicative of a
microbial role in the disease.

I stumbled upon www.ICuredMyGout.org and was fascinated by this
persons knowledge. I was hoping others would read and post their
thoughts and comments. Apparently he uses baking soda to keep his pH
more alkaline than acidic and it has worked for him. Please read
because his theory is sound. I was also wanting to know how many
people experience very cold feet before an attack of gout. It was
last year at this exact time that I was diagnosed and prescribed
allo. One full year gout-free but now I am having mild attack and
notice the same cold feet as last year. Can you believe this twinge
comes exactly 1 year later?

My initial attack was the right great toe which
was followed a few days later by an attack in the
left great toe. The 'wrong' joint in the left
great toe being involved caused the doc to have
some doubts about it being gout, but alot of
victims can have their attacks in a joint that is
statistically 'wrong'.

I suffered my first major Gout attack at age 55 in my big left toe 8
months ago. I went to ER cause of pain and lack of sleep got a
industrial shot of indomethicine, immediate temp pain relief. Started
taking indo tablets daily but after a couple months they were ripping
up my stomach. Switched to Colchicine and added 1/2 tab of Bextra
daily That Dr retired (quit). She said I would probably have another
attack within a year,, she was right. Then 3 weeks ago second attach
occured,
went to my GP, gave me tylenol/cod #3 for pain but that really only
helped a little to be able to sleep,, started Google ing and
searching,,,and researching what is available on the net,,,,
So a couple days ago after reading all the info that search engines
had yielded to me, I start thinking -- all the meds are just solving
one thing but side effects and secondary gout (caused by meds) maybe
another,,, what was the cause???
one of the sites that seemed to pull things together with little bias
was here
http://www.health911.com/remedies/rem_gout.htm#top
I printed it out and read it twice highliting what applied to me in
my diet and meds. I felt informed somewhat.
I see pros and cons for diet,, but
I saw a couple touts on Cherry juice,,, real juice not flavored.
better just fresh cherries or frozen. I do remember that about 2
weeks ago we had a big Shrimp dinner and I am thinking this may have
contributed to my second attack. So what do I have to lose?
I bought a bag of frozen dark cherries, frozen strawberries,
and a pound of grapes. Started the cherries 36 hrs ago,,, 22 cherries
to start. then 6-8 cherries in between meals, ate some strawberries
and a few grapes as snacks and VIOLA pain and swelling is almost
gone as predicted. The pain started dropping off in 12 hrs and I
wasn't sure but I had a better nights sleep.
One other variable, I started adding vitamin supplements C 1000 mg E
400 IU and Fish Oil 1 gram a day. I ran out of the tylenol 2 days
ago. I also tried to increase my water intake.
In 2 -3 months or years I may be able to testify more about these
dark cherries if the results hold up.
Any other success stories about cherries?
One web site touts Tart cherry juice,,, I didn't try that.
Many sites want you to buy their vits and mins but I took those with
a grain of salt. $$$$
Today I ran up the stairs and was not contrained by any pain in ankle.
Had steak last night!
An old southern gentlemen told me that his mother had always said
just eat a bowl of cherries and sitback.
Google gout cherry and you come up with some stories.
Larry

I was told that Gout attacks are usually in one joint at a time and
that Rheumatoid Arthritis attacks are in multiple joints.
Has anyone here ever had a gout attack in two joints simultaneously?
If so, which joints were affected?
Thanks

My name is Brian Choppin and I posted yesterday as well. I work for
a research company that is doing a study on people who suffer from
GOUT. We are paying $100 for participation. We are not selling or
recommending any product - strictly research. If you are interested
please contact me at 1-800737-2020 x.26

My name is Brian Choppin and I posted yesterday as well. I work for
a research company that is doing a study on people who suffer from
GOUT. We are paying $100 for participation. We are not selling or
recommending any product - strictly research. If you are interested
please contact me at 1-800-737-2020 x.26

20/20 Research Online is currently conducting a research project
regarding people who suffer from GOUT. We are looking for people
specifically in Dallas, Seattle and Philadelphia to participate in
an online bulletin board discussion that is taking place Wednesday,
January 26th through Tuesday, February 1st.
A bulletin board is a new, cutting-edge way to conduct market
research with busy people like you. The discussion consists of
about 12 other people and a moderator. This format allows you to
log in at your convenience and take part in the current discussion
anonymously. You will also be able to read everything that others
have said and respond candidly.
You will need to log in at least once a day for five days, and it
will take you about 30 minutes per day to participate. You can log
in from any computer with an Internet connection, whether at work,
home or elsewhere.
As a token of appreciation for your time and participation, we will
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I had been taking iron tablets for a while, but stopped once the
gout got really bad. I am wondering if anyone knows if iron tablets
have a bad affect on those with gout? And, would just any "multi-
vitamin" be ok to take? And from all the postings, I am going to
try getting a prescrip for Allo soon as I can get a doctor!
James W

A little humor here. Now for a normal person to stay hydrated
according to Dr. Mara Vitolins, a Wake Forest University Baptist
Medical Center nutritionist, you need is "to take your weight in
pounds and divide by two." "The result is the number of ounces of
water you should drink a day. So, a 100-pound woman needs to drink 50
ounces of water each day. A 200-pound man 100 ounces a day.
( http://www.terrawellington.com/Column2003/060203.htm ).
Now I am a 200 pound male, so theoretically, I should drink
100 ounces of water a day. What is a normal day, 16 hours? Mine
happens to be more like 15 hours, so that would mean "normally" I
should drink between 6 and 7 ounces of water an hour all day, but
since I have gout and am not "normal." I should drink more water. I
guess that 8 to 10 ounces an hour would be more like it, that would
be 120 to 150 ounces a day. (128 being a gallon). Now that's a LOT of
water!
I also remember hearing gout sufferers saying how when they
want to have a alcoholic beverage they usually drink twice the amount
of water either before of afterwards to "compensate" for the
indulgence. Wow! that would mean if you wanted 2 beers (12 oz.)
besides taking in the regular 120 to 150 ounces of water you would
now take in another 24 ounces of water on top of the 24 ounces of
beer! Whew! That's like a gallon and a half of fluids in one day!
There hardly seems enough time to accomplish this task. If you do
manage to keep up with your hourly quota of water what happens at the
2 hour party? You drink your regular 16 to 20 ounces of water PLUS
your 24 ounces of beer PLUS your extra 24 ounces of water! Whew!
that's a half a gallon right there.
Personally, I have tried this just as an experiment and it's
not pleasant. It somehow seems "unnatural".
Hmmmm, does anybody really know what is normal, I don't think so,
it's every man for himself!
Peter

Allopurinol has kicked my butt! I was put on 300mg. a day of
Allopurinol on December 16th. 2004. I began getting headaches after
about four days. I didn't attribute it to the Allopurinol I thought
it was just a headache or a cold. The headache continued and I also
started getting night sweats and chills, I still thought it was a
cold coming on. I was still getting minor attacks of gout which I
expected from reading about Allopurinol. Then I started feeling
spacey and disoriented and the headaches got worse. Then on December
28th I broke out in a bad rash, that's when I stopped taking the
Allopurinol.
Now on December 31st. my Doctor has prescribed 500mg.
Probenecid , starting out with cutting the pill in half and taking
twice a day. I haven't done that yet as I'm waiting for my headaches
and other reactions to the Allopurinol to subside before I subject my
body to more drugs. I will also say here that I've been a vegetarian
for over 30 years, meaning NO red meat, chicken or fish. I have been
drinking alcohol for the last twenty years, not in excess, just now
and then. I will say I didn't drink much water before this started
in December, but since it did start I've been drinking LOTS of water,
lately I get down between two and three quarts a day, sometimes more.
I had a Uric Acid blood test on December 16th and the results were
9.0. I really don't see much help for me without drugs because my
diet is pretty simple, but I am also afraid any other medicine than
Allopurinol won't be effective. I guess I will just have to wait a
while and try the Probenecid when I feel ready. I also got my Uric
Acid tester from England on January 5th. My first test was an 8.2
which is down from 9.0 but I didn't do the test after twelve hours of
fasting like it recommends and, who knows, it might be lower because
all the Allopurinol might not be out of my system. I'll have to check
it again in a few days. Any readers' suggestions are always welcome.
Peter

Hey people, I am a 27 year old gout sufferer who has been diagnosed
for 4 years. My doctor prescribed Allopurinol some time back but I
had feverish chills and shaking as side effects. Anybody else have
this as well? I have heard Allopurinol is the best drug for gout, but
after this reaction, my doctor took me off saying that I might be
having an allergic reaction.
So..I am now starting on Probenicid. If this works, I am only worried
about the possibility of having kidney stones from this drug. Does
anybody have more experiential information about Probenicid and
Allopurinol?
Thanks for any info.

Hello, I'm new to this group. I had my first attack at 21, I'm now
39. About 2 bad attacks per year since then, treated only with
Naproxen. I started allopurinol 4 months ago (100mg per day for two
weeks then go up to 200mg per day). I thought that was it, I was told
to expect some attacks at first and use the Naproxen. I was fine
until a couple of days ago. I now have an attack which is being
suppressed by Naproxen. I'm going to see my doctor - but I'm not
convinced I want to be taking more than 200mg of allopurinol (I'm
assuming he's going to say up the dose).
Any thoughts?
Thanks.

Hi everyone
As from my previous post, I have yet to be formally diagnosed with gout, and I
was shocked when my doctor told me that it was a strong possibility. I did
some quick reading and I saw that rate for women getting gout is pretty low, I
was wondering if anyone knew of any other boards that were specifically for
women, or have any anecdotes/stories about women and gout.
thanks all for your help!!

My name is Tommy and I'm 40 years old. I started having trouble
with gout at about age 30 with about one attack a year, but lately I
have noticed the attacks are becoming more frequent and now in
several joints. A real bummer, since I'm an avid weight lifter,
anyway, since my job doesn't supply us with a good health plan, I
have been trying to treat it on my own, drinking cherry
juice,cranberry juice and taking conjugated lineolic acid tablets
which are a derrivative of the saffron flower plant that they
cultivate to make colchacine. i'm also taking a lot of ibuprofine.
The fact I only have one kidney doesn't help the situation any either.
If anyone has any effective home remedies for gout they could
share, I would surely appreciate it and I will do the same. I have
been watching my diet as well. Hope to hear from you all soon, God
Bless,
Tommy.

Hi,
I'm very lucky. I had gout because it is hereditary, I'm a male over
40, I never drank enough water especially at night and I was over a
long evening period imbibing too much alcohol and consuming too many
proteins/calories. I don't want to be on drugs for the rest of my
life so I try to eat healthily, avoiding especially herrings (and
for the moment kippers, my favourite) sardines and anchovies. The
first and last of which nearly brought on attack number 2.
My beer limit (English real ale which is not warm beer contrary to
some descriptions of it) is 2 pints a night, not every night. The
wine doesn't seem to have any bearing so maybe the purines theory is
correct.
The best thing about not having another attack(so far) is I can walk
everywhere OK. Which is very useful if you haven't got a car or
other wheels. Also it keeps the weight in check and is supposed to
be good for your heart. Any other non-drug survivor stories? I'd be
interested to hear.
Cheers.

Even for those who don't believe that gout is
caused by an infectious agent, there is an
admission that immune system functioning affects
severity.
Indicators of fungal causation:
Onset in Springtime
At night
Sloughing of skin at end of initial attack
efficacy of allopurinol and colchicine which are
anti-fungal agents
severity linked to micro-nutrient levels.

My bad ankle had been doing so well for 2-3 weeks. Then I got a bad
cold/flu like illness. I noticed some swelling right when I was
starting to feel really bad with the infection. It seemed to clear
up and then came back 2-3 days later.
Anyone have a similar occurence ???
Thx

As to coping with the diet...
Purine content of foods plays a very slight role
in your levels. Fluid intake and allopurinol will
play a greater role.
As to females:
A pre-menopausal female usually will not get
gout, but this is merely the statistics. YOU are
not a statistic.
The usual confirmatory test is a bichromatic
analysis of aspirated synovial fluid from the
affected joint.
Was there suffed onset?
At night?
Initially painful that even a bedsheet was
intolerable?

I am James, and just found out 2 days ago I have "Arthritis
psudogout". I actually have arthritis WITH gout. In both ankles.
The gout likes to play "Tag, this ankle is it" for a week, then move
to the other ankle for a few weeks. I have also found out the "ankle
problems" I have had the past couple years is the same gout that is
keeping me on my walker I used with my bad back. So, I am spending
time going through posts that pique my interest here, and will also be
trying to learn more on how to live with and "control" this new
"additional pain" I will have to live with.
I have already found out my weight didn't cause my gout, some here
seem to really like Allopurinol (which once I get a family doc, I am
requesting some!), and to gradually change the foods I eat.
I hope to learn more, and hopefully get a better handle on my things.
James W

some gout fun, enjoy :)
http://www2.bc.edu/~forsytht/index.htm

Hi - I'm having difficulty posting a message. Here's another try.

Hi - this is my second attempt at posting....
I wonder if anyone out there can help me. My family doctor suspects I've got
gout, but says I need to get tests to be sure. The confusing thing is - I'm a
woman! Feels weird to get this (provisional) diagnosis...I thought this was one
for the boys. So here's what it feels like: swollen, red, so stretched the
skin is
itchy and VERY sore, although I'm still able to walk. Oh - and by 'it', I mean
my big toe. So what do the people who know say - is this gout? Thx.

Hello - hoping for some help. My doctor thinks a sore spot on my toe could be
gout, but can't confirm and wants to send me to a specialist. The thing is -
I'm
a woman, and everything I've read says chicks don't get it! So what's the deal?
Also - it's sometimes VERY sore, but at other times, just sort of itchy...like
the
skin is getting stretched. Is this what other experience? I would love some
feedback as it's going to be ages before I can see a specialist...also, should I
or
shouldn't I lay off the booze and other goodies over the festive season.
Thx!

Hi,
I've been recently diagnosed for gout. My doctor barely talked with
me about what that meant for me, he just gave me a minuscule list
with some names of food and drink on it and their purine content.
first I confused purine with Purina, which is a cat-food brand in
Holland. So apparently the doctor wanted me to be put on a diat.
I took it very light heartly because (so far as I know) all doctors
want their patients to be put on diets, especially if they are (like
me) slighly overweight. Anyway I took this list of him and checked
how much and what I am supposed to eat and in which quantities.
Surprise, surprise... all the good things in life were now forbidden
like lobster, shrimps, beef, pork, grilled chicken, fish, salami,
whisky, beer, wine, etc. etc. Even healthy vegetarian food that all
vegetarian restaurant are using to replace meat (like white beans,
peas, soya beans or lentils) were forbidden.
The first three week I tried to stick strickly to the diat, I ate less
than 50 grams of meat per day, didn't drink a single drop of
alcohol. Most of that time I just felt like a health nut, eating a
horrible vegetarian dish at work, while all my collegues were having
a nice steak, etc. etc. Eventhough I did my utmost I nevertheless had
a gout attack. My first thought of course was (and still is) "What's
the point to follow an unhumane diat, if it doesn't stop an attack?"
My doctor tried to put the blame on me, by stating that I was probably
lying to her about what I'd eaten. That's why I'm now visiting an
other doctor, who has given me medication (allupurinol) to cope with
the attacks.
I'm still on the diat and so far, with the help of allupurinol,
haven't had another gout attack (yet). My questions to you all are:
1. How to you cope with the gout-diat (especially now during the
difficult christmas - new year times)
2. If I would eat a 7 course New Year's Eve dinner with my wife in a
a good restaurant with a couple of glasses wine, but take my 100
grams of allupurinol afterwards then what would be the chances to
get another gout attack?
3. If the chances as high to have an attack, would a higher dosis of
allupurinol help?
4. (Again the New Year's Eve dinner). The dinner exists of three fish
courses, deer and rabbit. I've managed to replace the deer course
by a vegetarian dish, would that be helpful?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Tom.

I went to the Doctor December 16th. to get a perscription for allo.
Fine, I got one for 300mg.and a blood test at the same time (my
request). I asked to be notified about the results. They called six
days later, December 21st.and said my levels are a little high, 9.0,
normal they say is 8.2! Wow, even that sounds high to me. The weird
part is they said "you can now start taling the Allo" I said I
already started taking it last week. They then asked if it was
helping? Duh.....I said I think it takes a while to get in your
system, I don't think I'll feel the effects for a while. Thanks goes
out to this group for helping me get better informed rather than just
trusting the Doctor.
Peter

http://www.personalmd.com/news.jsp?nid=521961
Happy new year :)

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