Interested in gout

All,
I am in contact with a company in the Far East as follows - any
thoughts / experience to offer?
What follows is what I wrote to the UK gout organisation.
Quote
Dear Sir / Madam,
I have suffered from gout on and off for about 10 years - I am 61
years of age. Before retirement, my lifestyle would probably have
been conducive with developing gout as I was in a senior position in
sales & marketing - although I have always been an active person
squash / golf / skiing tennis etc.
During numerous annual tests at BUPA, I have been interested to
receive feedback on the level of uric acid found in my blood. It has
varied widely over the years and has given me an interest in being
able to measure the parameter at home.
All the reading that I have undertaken on the subject of gout
(including your excellent explanations), my personal experience of
attacks (maybe 1 or 2 per year), and the BUPA results, all lead me to
one conclusion. It is, that if sufferers were able daily, weekly or
at whatever intervals were necessary, to know the exact level of the
uric acid in the blood, then they might have a chance of changing
their immediate lifestyle in order to prevent an imminent attack.
Gout attacks in my experience appear to occur above a predetermined
threshold of uric acid in the blood, which may take days or weeks to
achieve according to ones most recent diet.
I imagined that a handheld device similar to that used by diabetes
sufferes to measure blood sugar level might be available.
To that end I ran a serach over the WEB and discovered such a device
from a Far Eastern company.
Their website address is www.uchain.com.tw
You may like to check them out. I am corresponding with them with a
view to purchasing a tester which will cost me +/- £150.
Do you know of any other companies marketing such a device - there
has to be a captive business opportunity in the U.K!
Yours sincerely,
R.I.Bottomley.
Unquote
Regards,
Bob Bottomley

There are no guarantees out there.There are some plain evil people
making money off of us poor ,in pain sufferers .Please include the
FDA in that list of Snake oil salesmen. Do you know where the FDA
gets its info on drugs they deem safe ? From the manufacturers of
that drug ,They dont even do thier own research.Look at all the
recalls . Do you remember a colchicine recall in 2000 that was
supposed to be .5 mg ,but the market was flooded with 5. mg pills
instead .The FDA states that colloidal silver salts in allopurinol
arent really safe or effective . I still have mine untouched I hope
I dont have to take it , but I will if I have to.
Doctors are in bed with drug companies and get pay offs, plus they
make money if we stay sick.So many politicians have thier hands in
the pharmaceutical cookie jar .Oliver Stone could stay busy for years
directing conspiracy movies .Admit it they are all snakes across the
board .Who you gonna trust?Has anyone here really read the
documented data by professionals (Doctors or snakes we will call
them all)about Chanca Piedra . I challenge everyone to find one
detrimental thing /side effect or other about this rain forest
herb.It appears to lower uric acid , reduce blood
pressure ,antispasmodic, anti-inflammatory, liver cleanser ,breaks up
gallstones ,kidney stones and crystals in gout sufferers. I take
it ,,even if it doesnt work on gout I would still take it , There are
too many benefits , I feel it does work , but read about it for
yourself instead of just dismissing it . It is such a simple herb the
FDA will probably outlaw it or own it . Why do you think medical
marijuana is illeagal.They cant control it . In 2000 yrs of use
noone has ever died from it .You would have to ingest 5 lbs of it to
be toxic .Aspirin is legal but people die from it every year , along
with countless others . Doctors kill people every day with scribbled
handwritten prescriptions that get misread by pharmacists . Lets call
a snake a snake and know that YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE YOU CAN TRUST!
Ask questions and dont take any one Doctors word for it
Crue

lowers uric acid levels other than allopurinol?I read sound waves can
destroy kidney stones , anyone ever try this on feet?Steroids scare
me and i am not a weight lifter.Some growth hormone steroids (from
Mexico )are actually taken from dead bodies and injected into healthy
live bodies ,scary shit . There are many of you who say diets dont
work ,, But my diet , stress and injury will throw me into an
excrutiating attack . I will mention Chanca piedra (Bhumy Amalaki)
once again,, I take it , does anyone else ?There are way too many
factors to pin point what will work for all and we are all
different .I am on a low carb high protein diet ,, with probiotics
to regulate my candida buildup.. My Heavy metals are high,, other
essential minerals are low . I havent taken any pain killers at all
during my last attack( who can say this also), At the onset dosed up
with antioxidants, Ate apples , salads ,, water (reverse osmosis)
detox teas ,, I noticed i was able to handle the pain,, soaking my
foot in apple cider vinegar made it swell to twice the size , But
still not throbbing , I felt was drawing out acid ,, still had to
endure the rest of attack,, All i know my body is attacking my foot,,
Could I have a pseudo gout?I want the crystals out and lower my uric
acid without allopurinol.Feel free to bash me if you wish to say "
You are setting yourself up for misery"Ive been through it before by
myself ,, But until my doctor is stricken with gout , I dont feel
every thought out of her mouth is some golden nugget.She wasnt even
aware amalgams were 70 per cent mercury, Knew nothing of heavy metal
toxins , couldnt even direct me to a diet that some other web page
didnt contradict.. So dont quit searching , there is not one cure for
all .. the anti venom for snake bites ,, comes from snakes . Dont be
so intolerant ,, doctors are merely practicing medicine . I have
never gotten a job "Practicing Carpentry"
Crue

HMmmm..I don't THINK per se that any of the snake oils that I have
come across are dangerous per se..and yes this has recentlly been
mentioned.
BUT there is this side:
Said gout sufferrer goes to his multi trillion dollar
pharmacutical chain..sees said product..reads claims of cure.BELIEVES
in said cure/product..OR else they wouldn't buy it would they!Or at
the very least believes in trying it.
The product is allowwed to be manufactured,distributed,sold,it's
claims are allowed to stand(although untested/unconfirmed).The
government in effect sees no real harm in this product..as they don't
control it/ban it like illegal drugs.The pharmacy goes along and
sells it.
The person takes this product in good faith.
Now this stuff doesn't work of course..AND that gout IS a
progressive disease.SO while he is taking the product to cure gout
the gout is In FACT getting worse!ALL the while this same pharmacy
does indeed sell a product(allopurinol) that does INDEED work! BUT is
NOT purported to be a cure.
People don't take snake oil AND allopurinol.They take the snake oil
THEN end up taking the allopurinol USUALLY before there is serious
damage.
Be an interesting lawsuit if someone actually rode the snake oil
to their demise..
Ya but who could take the pain?
INTERESTING..the snake oil proponents KNOW FULL WELL..that they're
gonna make their money..and so what?who cares?..these people ARE
ALMOST 100% going to get proper medical attention..BEFORE any damage
is done..hence no lawsuit..WOO HOO!..and MORE customers will come
along..

I was wondering if anyone has finished the polls posted here? I'd
like to see some results.

Unless you are sick,, no profit ,, this shit really pisses me off .My
child was injected with a toxic dose of thimerosal in the form of a
required vaccine so she could attend school and not infect others.
This god forsaken (mercury preservative)is to increase the shelf life
of vaccines was sanctioned by the FDA .because it was cheaper .. So
eat your mercury filled fish ,antibiotic laden meat,,and drinkit out
of a plastic lead /dioxin leaching cup..But I dont expect you to even
notice because you are so confused by the steroids you are taking
to look good ,,,Fuck you and this take a pill

Just got back my hair analysis,, loaded,,, my childs DAN Dr. is
wanting to do a DMSA challenge test to verify. who else has done
this ???????????????i still have an untouched bottle of
allopurinol... if I need it,, or colchicine ,, or pain killers(I will
take them in my hour of need).I am so depressed this group is
about "Get on Allopurinol or die!"Does anyone here believe we
became this way because of toxins?Or is gout simply genetics . I dont
recall my mother not be able to pass me out of her vagina because my
foot was swollen ...Maybe I have a different kind of gout, Not as
severe as most ,,I HAVE BEEN THERE! cursing all ,, this only
strengthens me to further my quest WHY? Why at 40 years old ? Why
does diet work ,,sometimes ,, Why attacks when on allopurinol?
or colchicine? What has my body lost its ability to do?Why do I get
an attack when my uric acid is low ?Is it so hard to believe in
simplicity,,, Aloe cools sunburn,,, Ginger calms the stomach,, Drugs
cover up the root cause of gout ,,and doesnt cure it ,,,Lets face
it folks ,,We have done a fantastic job of poisoning this planet
and we can get it back with GODS help..Dont just rely on
medicine..Heal yourselves Its what works for you,, dont judge ,,
just keep searching ,, My daughter is better from autism and
doctors admit its all from the parents of autistic children who keep
searching ,, Keep the faith,,and keep asking questions
Crue

Please bear with as I go on a rant...
In my experience, 90% of all homeopathic/ herbal medicine is crap.
If all this stuff is so good for you, why does everybody who works
at health food stores look like they are dying of AIDS? I had an ex-
girlfriend who was an herbalist guru, as well as my sister-in-law.
Both had literally DOZENS of so-called cures for gout, which cost
between $20 and $40 a bottle, that supposedly take about 8 weeks of
use to "work". Bullshit. None of them work, and there is no
substantiated evidence to prove otherwise- not only that, but there
is no information available on the long term effects of taking this
stuff. Why would a rational person turn down a single course of
treatment with steroids (with proven benefits AND risks), then leap
headlong into cramming their bodies full of UNPROVEN herbal
treatments at the recommendation of a pale hair farmer in a hemp
shirt who earns $5 an hour stocking shelves at "Whole Foods"????
The herbal/ homeopathic community directly accuses the medical
community of deliberately endangering our health for the sake of
monetary gain. The herbalists appear to have the "agenda" if you
ask me. When you tell them an herb made you sick, they tell you
lies like "You'll get sicker before you get better because it's your
body ridding itself of toxins". I guess if you happen to DIE from
the herbs, it's your own fault for being so toxic to begin with.
Lies lies lies lies lies.
Steroid treatments DO have their associated risks, but for many
individuals (like myself) the adverse side effects seldom
materialise. I have had three different steroid treatments for nmy
gout over the years- Medrol, Decadron, and Prednisone. All three
completely knocked out the inflammation within three days (and yes,
the reduction of the inflammation IS a "masking" effect to a degree,
but when I am in the throes of a severe gout flare-up I really don't
care, I just want the pain gone).
If you do not effectively treat your gout, it WILL cripple and
eventually kill you (directly or indirectly). Once you get gout, it
only gets worse if you do not treat it. This is proven.
So the current teatments are a little risky, but they do work.
Colchicine knocks my gout right out, which is good so I can get to
the bathroom to deal with its side effects (anyone who has
experience with the stuff knows what I mean). Allopurinol works,
albeit a bit tricky to get started on sometimes. NSAIDS and
steroids do treat the inflammation and pain effectively, though you
naturally do not want to take them all the time.
Sorry if this rant was a bit dogmatic, but I have wasted alot of
time and many on herbal/ homeopathic crap. I use this metaphor as
an example: All you have to do is get bit by ONE poisonous snake to
make you want to avoid ALL snakes. As far as I am concerned, snake
oil vendors are all venomous. Go for what really works.

Arnold,
Your mention of steroids being compared to allopurinol and something
regarding allopurinol kicking steroids butt. You have now peaked my
curiosity! Since I am a recreational weight lifter I would like to
know in what context you meant "kicked it's butt". Is there some
benefit of allopurinol in muscle growth or is it something that negates
the effect of steroids. If you have any saved information outside of
google searches, please share. Short of taking steroids I would love
to find something to help me pack on the lean muscle after I reduce my
body fat to an acceptable level(in my eyes). If I'm already taking
something to help out...fantastic.
I do want to add that I did lift for about 2 months consistantly
somewhere thru January and February of this year but decided to
concentrate primarily on aerobic exercises for weight reduction. My
protien intake is considered "high" by the common non dieters. I am on
a low carb diet(not Atkins, not South Beach but similar tweaked to my
tastes), which I do consume high amounts of protein (again relative to
opinion - to effectively body build I need even more). To my drawn
out point(sorry) I did not see any unusual gains during the two months.

Have any body got it as bad as this

I'm a skinny dude 5' 10" 165lbs 31 years old and I get the Gout (in fact have
the gout
at the moment).
I guess I'm just a fat boy in a skinny suit.

Hi everyone,
I just joined & haven't time to read many posts. I'm sure I will
learn more when I have a chance to go back & read more. I've only
done a small amount of research, also, so I have a lot to learn about
gout.
Here is a quick background & then some questions I hope someone will
answer for me. Two weeks ago I suddenly had pain in the top of one
foot, which wouldn't go away. It kept getting worse, I finally
decided I must've broken a bone in my foot somehow. I'm pretty clumsy
& figure I had hit in on something & just did'nt remember. So, I went
to the bone & joint clinic & they x-rayed & didn't see a break. The
orthopedist said he thinks it's gout & prescribed a dose pac of
MethlyPrednisoone. I didn't want to take a steroid, so went to the
health food store & they told me cherry fruit extract capsules along
with burdock is very effective for an attack. I've been poppong thos
all weekned with no relief. The pain was at it's worst last night 7
this morning, so I had DH go pick up the prescription & have started
on that. I was at the point where I was hopping on my good foot &
even on my hands & knees to get around, as well as on my butt going
down stairs. Plus, I have a 2 yr. old to take care of. Not fun. Well,
that was'nt very quick, sorry.
So, my questions right now are:
1) What type of doctor do I see to find out if this is really gout?
Internist? Kidney specialist?
2) What type of tests will they do/should I ask for?
3) I'm female & 45, normal weight, no family history, have had very
little achohol in years. (I did have minor surgery shortly before the
attack) How unusual is it for someone like me to have gout?
4) Has anyone tried acupuncture? It's hard for me to believe that
something so (seemingly) simple as uric acid levels can't be
controlled naturally somehow!!
Thanks for taking time to read & respond!
Cindy

Doc wants me to take 100mg for a month and then check uric acid and
kidney function levels. He is concerned because I have had elevated
creatinine readings in the past. I am 34, 6'6" and 280 and lift
weights regularly. How many got gout as a result of starting
allopurinol? How soon should I expect? Will take colchicine as
prophalaxis....does this work? How long will the attack last? I know
everyone is different just a quick synopsis please. Feeling anxious
and need reassurance....after ingesting first pill I will probably
have an anxiety attack looking for rashes and any other horrible
things that could go wrong. Will keep you posted.

Dear All,
I am 34, slightly overweight (a stone) and have started having regular gout
attacks in my toes, achillies tendon, instep - on both feet. Only now do I
realise that those 'sprained ankles' that I suffered from in my twenties, were
probably gout too (my Uric Acid level has always been high on blood tests)
My opinion is divided about whether this is entirely a inherited metabolic
abnormality, or whether I have weakened my kidneys by binge drinking in my
teens/twenties and eating too many take-aways.....Anyway onto my questions -
1) I have read that low dose aspirin can cause Gout - but that a high does can
have 'the opposite affect'.
What do you read into this? That High does aspirin can reduce uric acid? Has
anyone researched this - or did I misread the statement?
2) I have read that Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) can increase risk of gout,
although I have also read that Uric acid crystals dissolve better in urea with a
high concentration of Vitamin C? Anyone done research into high dosage vitamin C
and Gout?
3) Alkaline diets. Any truth in this? e.g. that eating certain foods (e.g. tea
with lemonjuice - which despite its raw acidity is supposed to be 'alkaline'
once processed by the body) can make your body 'less acidic' or is this just a
step away from 'weight loss pills' - i.e a myth
I would be greatful for any positive info on these questions. Please understand
I am fully aware of all the well know drugs and medical texts on gout - I just
like to think that there must be a cure/alternative solution (the scientist in
me). It does seem to me that the medical profession has 'given up' on us and
closed the book on Gout research - having satisfied themselves that they can
keep us out of the doctors surgery with a prescription for Allopurinol and
Indocid (et al). By the way I also have a rare tissue type called HLA-B27 which
is associated with reumatic conditions (my mother suffered from rheumatoid
arthritis - not gout I know but... ) - has anyone else been tissue typed for
this? It won't help us in the short term - but would be very interesting to see
if there is a link
thanks
Rod

I was wondering if anyone who has gout is thin?
Because it's mentioned that you should lose weight, if you have gout.
Is everyone alittle overweight?

20-30% mortality rate??? Infrequently??? Benign??? Willing to
take a chance???
Approximately 3-10% of patients taking allopurinol develop dyspepsia,
headache, diarrhea, or pruritic maculopapular rash. More
infrequently, patients can develop allopurinol hypersensitivity,
which has a mortality rate of 20-30%. Features of allopurinol
hypersensitivity include fever, toxic epidermal necrolysis, bone
marrow suppression, eosinophilia, leukocytosis, renal failure,
hepatic failure, and vasculitis. Corticosteroids often are used to
treat allopurinol hypersensitivity. Allopurinol hypersensitivity is
more likely to occur in patients with renal insufficiency, patients
who are taking a diuretic, and patients begun on 300 mg of
allopurinol.

The link between lead and gout has been known for a
long time.
I doubt that dental amalgams contribute to gout simply
due to the amount of material available.
Most tests such as serum and urine only indicate
recent exposure, not overall burden.
Often the damage is done and the heavy metals are
excreted.

Does anyone here have amalgams? Anyone here ever done a hair toxic
test?Other than a standard urinalysis ,,Has anyone here ever done a
DMSA challenge test?I want to hear of any toxic heavy metal
poisonings,,,gout is a symptom of lead poisoning in some cases,,I
feel there is a link
Crue

Hi Dennis,
I sympathise with your dilema but be of good heart. I have been on Warfarin
(rat poison) around 5mg daily for 27 years following a stroke and atrial
fibrillation.
In 2000 I was prescribed Bendrofluazide to reduce hypertension which I didn't
have and "secondary gout" followed, in my elbows, hands and feet under my toes
and in my big toes. My uric acid was tested at .39 UK mmols. Six weeks later
when I came off Bendrofluazide it was down to .3.
I persuaded my doctor to let me try Allopurinol in August 2003 on 100mg at
first, then 200mg in January 2004 and now on 300mg from the middle of this
month.
My situation has improved slowly, attacks increasing in frequency (almost
daily
in the early hours of the morning) but mercifully decreasing in severity and
dur-
ation and my recent uric acid test showed .2 so something is afoot (so to
speak !).
I have never had a synovial fluid test and doctor and rheumatologist say I
just have
osteoarthritis, but I know that pain very well and this one is something
else....mind-
blowing in fact. So far I tolerate Allopurinol well. I have given up
Glucosamine since
hearing of its shellfish origin and, in fact, all supplements and vitamins to
give Ally
a fair chance and until I am free of attacks I shall keep to a non-purine
diet. I'll keep
you posted.
Best of luck,
Freda.

Hey everybody,
It's been so quiet out there. What up? Anyone have any
more "experiences" for gout that are natural not pharmaceutical based?

Hi..yes.. I did start a LITTLE group of my own..NO..I wasn't
really going to post about it..if people found it they found it.I'm
SURE that those that look for gout info. will find it.NO I did not
email any members of this group to join it.i/e invite them.This had
NOTHING to do with the members here.DO NOT!! think for even
one..1..second that I was intimidated!!! in ANY way!..Personal
attacks are personal attacks..nothing new for me..SOMETIMES I
respond/deal with them..AND YESSIREE can I get
nasty,hostile,aggressive..defending myself..correcting others..hey
even helping others..I can dish it out..and take it..othertimes..I
just laugh it off/shrug it off..I CERTAINLLY was NOT running
off..going into hiding.THIS group here is a GREAT group!.I still feel
welcome!!..I have no intention of going anywhere..I'll still come
here..ya ya ya.. lawsuits...HEHEHAHA...I am ACTUALLY laughing as I
type this.Do you think that anyone that has been a hard tough
athletic type..could at one time machine leg press 750 lbs..crack 2
minute half miles..AND was literally crippled with gout..bedridden
for 8 out 18 months..20 hrs a day.Just about wiped out
financially..decided to CHANGE sides..AND go on drugs..VOWING to
return..AND HAS COME A LONG WAY BACK!!!!..is afraid of
lawsuits..HEHEHEHAHA!!!...HEHEHEHAHA!!!..ROFL!!!..LMAO!!!.LAWSUITS MY
ASS..from what I have said about gout..DOES ANYONE think that
anyone/thing can silence me????????...this is just
weepy,wimpy,drivlly stuff..
The only reason that I started another group..AND I did start one
a year or two ago..AND NO-ONE JOINED!! BOO HOO..HEHEHAHA...
was to focus more on the ACTUAL fixing of gout..more or less
PERMANENTLLY!!
This whole thing about controlling it..aye yi yi..
Enough people for sure have said goodbye to gout..
Allopurinol is pretty much the only way.
I just want a focal point for others that have said..NO
MORE!!!!!! gout.They can come to the group..take a look
around..read..learn..join..say hi..post..TELL STORIES! interact..get
help..give help.They will also be in a supportive environment.NO I am
NOT going to really entertain other ideas(old ideas) about dealing
with gout.This WILL be a pro-active group..where the focus is going
to be..NO MORE GOUT.That will be the end.AND the means will be
justified.ONE THING is pretty much for sure.For almost anyone..you
come to that group..be prepared..READY to simply leave gout behind.
This group here..I DON'T WANT ANYONE!!! to leave it..this is STILL
VERY much needed! to discuss all things gout.
Allopurinol is sure not "THE" answer for gout.I have said that
ENOUGH times.I feel it lies SOMEWHERE/SOMEHOW..in the interstitial
membrane..SOMEHOW too much uric acid crosses this into the joint
area.Right now there aren't even IDEAS as to how this happens..Or
why..let alone how to fix that problem.
So we take our allopurinol..
Sincerly..Arnold..

Guess WHO was allopurinol's GREATEST FOE??...I wish I could put
this in tiny mouse size letters!
NO I am NOT ashamed..I DO feel a bit stupid for the way I used to
criticise it AND those that took it AND those that reccommended it.
I read EVERY post!!!..and believe you me..the posts here that
criticise allopurinol etc.,consider them ADVOCATES of this drug
COMPARED to how I used to feel/talk about it.
I had had gout for 14 years..and YES THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! I
was "managing" it..sure I had attacks..every year/two..NO-ONE and I
am NOT KIDDING! was as big a "Know it all" as I was about EVIL
ALLOPURINOL..I READ EVERYTHING I think that MAYBE has ever been
written by ANYBODY about it..I could ZERO IN..on EVERY!! single
fact,percentage,RISK..I had my diet,exercise,water,attacks every
year,two./and NOT only that I had my uric acid level tested..WITHIN
the average range thank you very much..I am STILL simply astonished
at the number of people that do not know theirs/don't have it tested.
I DID NOT NEED IT!!!!! AND WAS NEVER,EVER going to take it.
So there I was just having my attack every year/two..PERFECT diet..
Sure enough..attack time..this time was different.A LOT!This
attack hospitalized me.EVERYONE I saw..E'gy
Dr's,nurses,specialists,follow up visit with my gp,specialist..hey
guess what..EVERY single one.there were NO abstainers..said
ALLOPURINOL NOW FOR LIFE!
What did I do..HIT THE SNAKE OIL..
1 1/2 yrs later I was still BEATING MY CHEST..what did THOSE''so
called "experts" know.NOTHING.
THEN I had another attack..this one simply BENT MY MIND..it started
out with rheumatic fever..I was for all intents and purpsoes
unconcious in my bed for 30 out of 36 hrs..THEN came a fever with
such highs and lows I am ashamed to admit that the rush was like
nothing I had ever experienced!..this went on for a few days..I had
basically been in bed for about 5 days.I had NEVER been in bed for 2
days in my life..THEN came the gout..(ALL part of the above I was
later to find out)starting off SLOWWwwww..every now and then a little
jolt..THEN PAIN..like no other gout attack..1 foot..the other
foot.on/off..sometimes a tempo..I rode this attack out..waiting for
it to break..it did..after about 10 days..I spent those 10 days plus
the first 5 days basically in bed..THEN it came back with a hitherto
UNKNOWN FURY...I NEEDED medical attention RIGHT NOW..I was TOO
embarrassed to go back to the same hospital..EVEN to ANY of the Dr's
I had previouslly seen..they had ALL told me what would happen.AND IT
DID..I just needed some dope.I went to a clinic..never been there
before.Nice Dr...wanted IMMEDIATELY!! like RIGHT THIS VERY
SECOND..medical history,treatment of this..(they can acces that stuff
here in about 1 second)I told him I wanted Colchicine..AND I didn't
want to go back to my other Dr.s..ok fair enough..start afresh..NO
COLCHICINE...HUHN WHAT??..NOPE..his way..indo..I told him that did
NOTHING..HERE take it for 10 days..come back.The indo did
nothing..this was NOW weeks AND weeks since I basically walked.Back I
went..GIMEE the colchicine..NOPE..Viox..10 days..did nothing.I WAS
basicaly FUC*ED..I was NOW in a situation..in a free government
health care system..where I had REFUSED previous advice/HELP..it went
something like this.."You can't walk..havent been able to for more
than a month now...your ski season(it was) is FINISHED..PROBABLLY FOR
LIFE..NOW!!!!!here's a script. for allopurinol,indomethicine,..and oh
yeah..we'll give you some colchicine..MAXIMUM DOSE..I'm going to do
you a BIG favour..take the allopurinol..AND the indomethicine..AND
the colchicine..you have enough for 3 days..if you need more..PLEASE
come back and see me IMMEDIATELY if you need more..oh yeah..when you
come back..we're going to take a blood sample to see how much..if any
the allopurinol has lowerred your uric acid(they took a sample
then)..we will know if you haven't taken it..if you haven't..NO MORE
COLCHICINE!..and don't try and get it anywhere else..this is all on
computer.."
I had never taken colchicine before..6 hrs after I took it I was
PAIN FREE! AND WALKED!!!..BUT!!! I had NOW made some Faustian pact
with the devil..after EVERYTHING else I had EVER taken..colchicine
was "the drug"..THIS Dr..I sensed REAL quick..NOBODY!!!!!! gonna be
pullin' his chain..I took the allopurinol..KNOWING full well..just
the SECOND that this attack ended..he could..AND WOULD..SHOVE the
allopurinol UP HIS *SS...8 hrs after the colchicine ended..HELL AND
Mephistophelis..AGAIN came knocking..back I had to go for MORE
colchicine..the attack was worse..he thought MAYBE the allopurinol
had made it a BIT worse..he LET me stop it..and continued the
colchicine..the colchicine was losing it's effectiveness..I was in
pain..couldn't really walk..BUT the pain edge was gone..the
allopurinol I think had actually helped a bit..he thought that I had
NOW mucked around with gout to the point where the attack was self
perpetuating..and uric acid at site was being added to the fire by
the sheer number of white blood cells dying..AND the maximum amount
of colchicine.I was in a VERY,VERY bad way..I was in perfect
health..had had a RIPPING hard! Fast day of skiing..6 weeks ago..and
hadn't really walked since.I had basically been in bed since.It was
CLEAR to me..that I had FAILED..in dealing with gout MY WAY..there
was now NOTHING I could do..I was a BEATEN,BROKEN crippled man.I was
at SOMEONE ELSES mercy..THIS was a VERY BAD thing for me..EVERYTHING
had NOW panned out just the way they said it would.This Dr..REALLY
wanted to shove it into me too..I think to impress upon me..what had
to be done.He EVEN asked me..seeing me as BEATEN..what I wanted to do.
I look back on this Dr.and he HELPED me like maybe NO-ONE has ever
helped me before.He sized me up and said..to himself ok..this MORON
is ONLY going to CRIPPLE himself..LOOK what he has done already..WHAT
an IDIOT!!..I!!! am a Dr..AND in a position to help him..and AM going
to help this FOOL..WHETHER he wants it or NOT!!!..
C'mon..put yourself in this Dr's position..some ahole..who has
GREAT health!..he comes a callin' for COLCHICINE??..of all the
garbage that people want..I'll fix his SORRY ass and his "quest" for
colchicine.Colchcicine..ya I'll give him JUST enough to get by..IF he
deals with the REAL problem.
I replied it was no longer a question of what I "wanted" to do.I
would SELL ALL MEANS..TO achieve the END..to be able to walk again.
I simply had to leave where I was..go somewhere else..NOTHING
could be worse.
I had NO choices left.FORCED to go on allopurinol..terrified of
it..ENRAGED at being left with this as the ONLY option..WORSE..what
if it didn't work.
WORST of all..I had to NOW be PRO-allopurinol.I told myself that
IF I could put together 1..ONE..sizzling hot ski run..it would be
ok..TRUST ME..the Dr.s I saw..shook their heads.I had TRULY BLOWN
it..that idea left for less and less..I ended up saying if I EVER
even got a pair of ski boots on AGAIN..and slid..a bit..down a
hill..I WOULD BE ELATED!!
Switching sides..I asked and heard and read and researched..NOT
like I had before..THIS TIME..I DID NOT want to hear
anything "Speculative"..the "risks"..or ohhhh..this could happen..
I wanted to KNOW the BAD that ACTUALLY happened to people on
allopurinol..and man oh man..did I PESTER the DR.s I saw..
This is a drug..prescribed drug..for life..and America being a
litigious society..were there lawsuits against the Manufacturer?
Jurisprudence?Physicians for prescribing it?
I did math..1% of the population had gout..that's 50 MILLION
people..hmm..how many were on this drug?for life..for 40 years since
it has been around?
Allopurinol is patented,licensed for
production,distribution,prescription in OVER 60 countries.
Actual cases of allopurinol ACTUALLY causing ANY damage AT ALL..in
healthy people..are almost non-existent.OF course it does happen..OF
course.OF COURSE there is a "measured" risk.
The "rash" thing..hey..I talk the talk..and walk the walk..and it
is only FITTING that I had the rash.
YES it actually almost killed me.And you know something..SO
WHAT..IT DIDN'T..and I WAS SOOooo HAPPY!!!! to get back on it again!!!
And yes...while on allopurinol I did have another attack..that
again left me unable to walk for 4 months.
SO WHAT..
People can make up their own minds as to whether they want to
take it.They TOO can judge the facts.
Again people that criticise it should bring FACTS..BRING
LOTS!!..bring healthy people with gout..show us all the GREAT
TERRIBLE things that allopurinol does.
THEN howzabout we compare the to 2500 years of documented GOUT
HORROR.
I put forth that gout is next to impossible to deal with without
allopurinol.
Oh I have it under control..I have an attack a year or so..
And OFTEN I ask..What are your uric acid levels?
Before,during,after,average..HAVE you lowerred them the requisite 20-
30%?
What do I hear?SILENCE!
DON'T ANYONE ever think that what happenend to me..can't or won't
happen to them.I am ONLY trying to PRY some peoples eyes open to the
reality of gout.ANYONE ends up like me=NEEDLESS sufferring..
I have been on BOTH sides of the allopurinol debate.
AS have others out here.AS WILL more people be.
IT's nothing to be ashamed of..we ALL make mistakes.
BAD,BAD...VERY!! BAD mistakes can be made with gout.
I was extremely lucky.
When I see others who are about to go on allopurinol..pretty much
NO-ONE went as STUPIDLLY!!!! far down the NO-ALLOPURINOL road as I
did..and you know what????..IT sure is NOTHING to be proud of..I look
at others who don't want to go through what I did..you know what I
call that?
SMART!

Here we go, here we go I am about to go on Allopurinol
My case: Age 53. Goodish health, moderately unfit, no hypertension,
not particularly overweight but heavy regular beer drinker (four
pints a day). Gout for five years at the rate of a couple of (what I
now call) minor attacks a year led to major attack at the start of
this year lasting six weeks.
In my opinion the cause of the major attack was a) heavy two month
period of DIY associated with a new loft extension, b) stress caused
by work to submit a big tender by end of the year and c) typical
binge eating and drinking over Christmas.
In fact the six weeker was clearly not just one single attack of
gout, it was one attack after another with very short remissions in
between.
GP tried high doses of Indomethacin (200 mg a day) to stop the cycle
but apart from fuzzing my brain it had little effect.
The specialist Consultant then stopped the cycle with 0.5 mg
Colchicine taken max three times a day along with the Indomethacin 50
mg three times a day. This mix knocked the cycle out in 24 hours.
I had no side effects from the Colchicine though if you read the
potential side effects listed on the packet you would never touch the
stuff. Keep taking this drug until you vomit, what sort of
instruction is that ?
The only thing that I would say is that I think that Colchicine is
just holding off the gout. Every morning both my feet and ankles
feel (what I can only describe as) leaden. Not painful as such but
just difficult to walk until I do my regular morning exercises and
then it goes away.
My specialist, who I believe to be one of the best in the UK, will
not let me onto Allopurinol for at least a month. In the meantime he
is monitoring my uric acid levels and liver enzymes. Hopefully I
start on Allopurinol at the end of this week.
All my reading about this drug is that it is highly beneficial with
lots of GOOD side effects, especially to do with the cardio vascular
system. Always look on the bright side of life !
I only wish that I had monitored this notice-board years ago and
forced my GP to check out my hyperuricaemia properly WHEN I WAS
FEELING PERFECTLY WELL BETWEEN EARLY ATTACKS - and then get me onto
the A drug. I believe that the ONLY reason that they don't do this
is COST (of which not enough comment appears on this notice board
there must be armies of people out there who can't afford this drug
and who must be in lots of pain).

Allopurinol. Allopurinol (Lupurin, Zyloprim) is very effective in
reducing high levels of uric acid and may be helpful for patients
with uric acid stones. It should be noted that allopurinol will not
prevent calcium stones from forming. There is also a slight risk for
xanthine stones with this drug.
The drug's side effects, experienced by 3% to 5% of patients, include
diarrhea, headache, and fever. More severe complications include
blood disorders that may produce fatigue, bleeding, or bruising.
About 2% of patients experience an allergic reaction to allopurinol
that causes a rash. In rare cases, the rash can become severe and
widespread enough to be life threatening. Allergic individuals who
had experienced only a mild rash may be able to build up their
tolerance for the drug by undergoing a desensitization process. The
drug may also increase the risk for cataracts.
Some patients experience an allergic reaction to allopurinol, which
can be fatal. Because allopurinol reduces uric acid levels rapidly,
it may trigger an attack of gout in susceptible people. To prevent
this, patients should take a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID)
for two or three months. One study recommended indomethacin, although
many NSAIDs are available. (Aspirin, which is also an NSAID, should
not be taken, since it increases uric acid levels.) Patients should
discuss the appropriate drug with their physician.

This topic has been touched on before here..but not to this
extent..come to think of it I don't think I have read anything on it?
THANKS! to Walters EXCELLENT! post on crystal
attraction/formation..in the etching of a beaker and the subsequent
results..
I just wanna expand on this a bit..EXPLORE!
Ok..we pretty much know that gout tends to start in a particular
place..and pretty much ALWAYS returns to the scene.THAT scene.ONLY
allopurinol to my knowledge can put and end to that.We also know that
gout..left untreated will attack other areas..and maybe
both..multiple at once.
Now..let's say that we begin allopurinol treatment.ANd I think it
is fair to assume that this can and does initiate attacks.Indeed many
people have been turned off it because it did initiate
attacks.Although experts may/will debate this..I don't think I have
come across ANYTHING even anecdotally that says the attacks were..or
got WORSE than they were before.This is why so many more doctors say
that ya so what ya got gout you're gonna have to take allopurinol
ANYWAY this won't make it worse so TAKE IT NOW..
Also..I think it is fair to say that there were also NEW
attacks..in virgin territory.Clinically..and from posts..people that
have emailed me..Hey..whats up wit diss..I NEVER,EVER had an attack
in my LEFT foot..NOW I START allopurinol and THIS happens..NOT my
right foot as always.Indeed..sometimes the attack(when on
allopurinol) NEVER returns to it's old haunt.
Allopurinol/migrating attacks..no-one really knows why/where..the
NEXT one will be.It is also fair to say that the attacks diminish and
eventually go away.
Uric acid is GOOD!..it is an EXCELLENT!! scavenger..dealing with
OTHER waste products..sweeping them along the clear part of the
blood..dealing with free radicals etc.We do indeed NEED uric acid.I
came across something the other day about how in ms they have always
found TOO low a level..and also no gout.That was all I read on
it..just one article.PROBLEM is when the uric acid gets in the joint
fluid..too much of it.
I am going to GUESS..that as the disease gout develops..that
crystals scratch/etch the surfaces of their next targets.The surface
is scratched.Now at this point it is not known whether white blood
cells heal this scratch..i/e scar tissue..or perhaps the scratch is
left as Walter has pointed out..leaves it rough..it is known that
gout..uric acid..crystals attaches itself to rough surfaces.Now
whether the uric acid..maybe minor crystal formation..perhaps
phagocytes..white blood cells surrounding crystals..are ALREADY
there..in waiting..and when the allopurinol starts the ball rolling
to disturb the uric acid deposits and overall level.it COULD be that
MORE uric acid,crystals simply get NOW attracted to this "etched"
surface.
I also thought that now that we have started allopurinol treatment
and the obvious migrating of uric acid deposits/crystals..that
PERHAPS the microscopic cuts are still there..and are NOW
exposed..attracting white blood cell attention..AND seeing as how
they are there/got there..ALSO NOW see uric acid crystals..OR the
chemicals resulting from the degradation of the phagocytes..and the
attack begins..
Just a few thoughts..I have had gout VERY BAD..BUT NEVER other
than my feet UNTILL I started allopurinol several years ago..THEn I
started to have minor attacks..in LOTS!! of OTHER areas..
Was this just coincidence?migrating uric acid/formation/(and the
attendent ph,temp,circulation)crystalization/attack..OR were those
the NEW sites for the future GOUT TEMPLE!
BE WELL!..Arnold..

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this group and wanted to post my experience and get
feedback.
I've been suffering from gout for about 5 years. My first doctor
wanted to put me on allopurinol but I didn't want to take another
pill everyday for the rest of my life and since I'm nervous about the
safety of some medicines, I chose not to take it.
A new doctor I went to a couple of years ago thought that was a good
decission. He ran several tests; blood serum levels, urine levels and
several kidney tests which the first doctor never did. It turns out
there are two reasons for having gout attacks; either you are an over
producer of uric acid, or an under excreter and allopurinol is only
usful for the first. If I had taken allopurinol, not only would it
have not helped me, it could have created problems because I have
something wrong with my kidneys that they haven't been able to
determine yet. The medicine for under excreters is probenecid.
Unfortunately, I couldn't take it with the other meds I'm taking
because it made me so sick. I am stuck using colchicine poison each
time I have an attack which has been as much as every 6 weeks lately.
I used to use indomethiicin but can't anymore because I'm on blood
thinners.
As far as diet is concerned, I swear every time I try to cut down on
purines, I get a rebound attack within a week. Why am I getting an
attack when I stop eating them?
What about pain relief? I can only take tylenol and vicodin and
neither helps. I can't take another night of no sleep.
I know two other women who suffer from gout and we all have the same
conclusion about what triggers an attack, STRESS! Whenever we are
under stress, it almost is sure we get an attack.
I would appreciate any feedback from anyone.
Thanks.
Dennis

Lead has always been a factor in gout. It is usually
ignored by doctors treating gout however.
Most blood and urine tests for heavy metals really
only detect recent exposure; a lead burden test is far
more time consuming and expensive but reveals the lead
content of an adult whose exposure was quite some time
ago.
This Three attacks prior to going on allopurinol
doctor should read more recently developed guidelines.
I think the optimal treatment is no NSAIDS,
allopurinol right away at 300-400mg with a maintenance
dose later of 100mg. This brings uric acid levels down
and in the one study of this not one subject had
another gout attack. There have been very few studies
that have tried to determine just how low your uric
acid levels have to go to avoid future gout attacks.

I've been on allopurinol for 15 yrs. A recent kidney function/efficiency test showed normal kidney function.

In my case, the cause is heredity. Too many males in my family have
suffered gout for too many generations for this not to be strong
evidence that genetics plays a role.
The effects of this gout are directly linked to behavior/
consumption in my case. Though I do occasionally get the "attack
out of nowhere", there are things that are 100% guaranteed to
provoke an attack. (By attack I mean one or more joints that are so
swollen the skin shines like chrome, are apple red, and radiate
enough heat to warm a tortilla, that sends jolts of pain up my spine
with every heartbeat).
I am absolutely going to get a gout attack withing 24 hours of
consuming virtually any quantity of beer, wine, or oysters. I have
proven this to myself time and time again, because I love all of
these things and it was HELL to give them up (especially Oysters
Rockefeller washed down with Shiner Bock). I refused to accept the
loss of these divine treasures, so I went back, time and again- each
time with the same result- A nasty gout attack. Sometimes I will
now take the maximum dose of colchicine and "purge" myself with tons
of pure water for a day or two in advance of a planned "Oyster
Rockefeller treat" or a "two day drunk" just because I love it so
much it is worth the effort. It makes my wife nuts- she just can't
understand why I can't just exist on bread and water and be happy.
I can and do keep my gout pretty much in check with diet
modification and colchicine. As stated in previous posts, I WILL
get on allopurinol in the next few weeks, and hopefully be able to
indulge my passions more frequently again.
Many of you in this group are far more health conscious than I am.
I would literally rather live a shorter life gout free than a longer
life managing it. I have no problem consuming narcotics, NSAIDS,
colchicine, allopurinol, steroids, whatever in whatever quantity it
takes to alleviate my symptoms. For me it's not the quantity of
life, but the quality.
I am at peace with my abstinence from beer and wine- I'll never
consume either again. I'll make that concession. But I will NEVER
give up cheesy foods, oysters, shrimp, chorizo, steak, or cured
meats. I am a cooking school graduate with a passion for rich food-
it is part of who I am.
As usual, I got long-winded in my post and point, which is DIET IS A
FACTOR at least in "triggering" attacks in my case.

I think I have found a small glass-like crystal between a joint in
the article in New England Journal of Medicine.
Under the heading "Results" it states that
"Only 11 percent had undergone arthrocentisis, and of these, 65
percent reported having urate crystals in their joint fluid."
Well that's not good enough
In Brian Emerson's book <<Getting Rid of Gout
"Because the human body is so complex, nothing in medicine
applies invariably. However, one can work on the basis that crystals
are ALWAYS present in the joint fluid in an acute attack of gout and
that, provided an adequate sample can be obtained, urate crystals
should be detectable in the joint fluid!
Well in my opinion club rules are club rules. I don't care how much
pain you have, no crystals no gout - so hop it !
Professor Emerson also states (same page) that
"Ninety-five percent of people who suffer from acute gout
have high urate concentrations in the blood serum for many years
prior to the first acute attack."
I note that the New England JofM article found that of the new gout
cases 72 percent reported hyperuricemia [high urate concentrations in
the serum].
My take on this is that crystals and hyperuricemia are not as
absolute as factors as they had appeared to be, although they are
obviously still the most important ones.
Walter's information about the build up of uric acid in the fatty
tissue for [presumably as long as] 10 to 15 years before an attack,
makes lots of sense to me. For most of us getting the secretion
level right in the kidneys and getting the uric acid out of the
system, over time, must be the answer.
But all of this seems to me to point to (at least) two control
mechanisms at work, hyperuricemia and an unknown factor (or maybe
more than one). The unknown factor can cause acute gout even in
patients with low hyperuricemia and even with no crystal formation
but it is rare. Without the unknown factor patients can have
hyperuricemia and crystals and yet no gout.
This is a typical problem in engineering it's the over temperature
switch AND the lubrication but everyone hayes that, they always
want a nice simple solution.
That is probably all that is confusing us in the technology led lobby
in this debate.
But the fact that just because the influence of my theoretical
unknown factor is rare does NOT mean it should be ignored. Rare
means that it is there. And I wonder if it is not related to
DIGESTION (and stress) rather than to DIET as such.

Bear with me kiddies
Because I am considered somewhat of a village idiot at this group,
but I do have one thing my doctors dont "Gout".I have suspected that
my childs autism is linked to thimerosal in vaccines,(so do many
others )coupled with other variables have left her unable to process
certain protiens that act as opiates on her brain. A vicious cycle of
excretion (of heavy metals ,, lead , mercury,, arsenic )and the
mal-absorption(if that is correct) of nutrients to further the bodies
efficiancy keep her from getting well.My wife and I have seen
improvements since she is seeing a DAN Doctor(Defeat Autism Now )
Mainstream medicine doesnt acknowledge ,, but there are thousands who
do parent doctors of autistic kids know that it is "Heavy Metal
toxcidity" that is the cause . My kids have had hair samples tested
and they are loaded with it ,,all 3 metals . where did they get it ?
I suspected I was also toxic too,, So after a 24 hr urine test I
find my arsenic levels were high,,, Lead 0 and Mercury 0,,I thought
this was a inconclusive test because of handling and after reading
Andrew Hall Cutlers book "Amalgam Illness"stating merc or lead might
not show up unless DMSA challenge test was taken to mobilize the
metal,,,,THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS TO DO BECAUSE MERCURY CAN MOVE TO
THE BRAIN,,,I am seeing the enviromental Doc tom
Also in Cutlers book top of the list in Lead poisoning symptoms Is
GOUT,, I strongly feel my amalgams (fillings in my teeth made of 50
to 70 percent mercury) are causing me many other symptoms. The fact I
have been exposed all my life to lead at work and other toxins and
have 10 amalgams and work with arsenic treated wood all the time
makes me feel there is a cause to this .read all you can about
mercury and how its slowly accumulating in us and killing us . I plan
to have my fillings replaced with composites and chelate my
system,,after i read so many stories of success and feeling relief in
days .. check it out,, get a hair sample done ,, its tough to get a
DR. to even listen,, read "Mercury Free" by Dr James Hardy,, Amalgam
Illness by Andrew Hall Cutler. I am still not on colchicine or
allopurinol,, I still take my herbals and Chanca and lots of
antioxidants ,, I feel like crap mood swings anxiety joint pain
angry but when I get them out (fillings ) I am convinced this will
change Wish me luck and check it out for your selves. Post whatever
you feel but dont keep anyone else from healing themselves saying
prescriptions are the only way ok .. Go to safeminds.org
Let you know how I feel,, My antioxidant level is too low to remove
my fillings for 2 months but I cant wait to feel better
Crue

My doctor confirmed I had gout about six weeks ago. I am 34 yo and
have binge drinked at least once a week since the age of 22. I also
weightlift for the last 16 years and weigh a healthy 280 at 6'6". My
gout started in my right ankle and over the course of three weeks
moved around the same ankle (in and out of pain). During diagnoses
uric acid was 9.3. I have had readings of 7.7 and 8.1 since stopping
binge drinking. Indomethacin did nothing but cause stomach problems,
found relief with Ibuprofen 800mg 4x daily. Doc also prescribed
colchicine but I was too terrified to use after reading it was a
poison that messed with your DNA at the mitochondria. Why would
anyone use this stuff?
Now that you have a little history, my doc says to wait until you
have three attacks in one year before starting allopurinol. I have
also read the same info on other gout related sites. He also states
that allopurinol is not prescribed "lightly". Has anyone's kidney
function declined or other metabolic changes taken place from
allopurinol? I am worried because my creatinine levels tend to be
high at times from 1.8 to 1.3, average being 1.5 (doc says probably
due to muscle mass). How nephrotoxic is this med? I also notice
Arnold says to not wait on taking allopurinol because gout will
return stronger and more frequent. What should I do? Should I wait
or should I tell doc about more attacks so he will prescribe? Please
reply!

From what I have read and from what I have learned from people I have
talked to who treat gout patients every day, gout is not the reaction
of your foot or toe to crystals that just formed over night. Indeed,
we get reminded painfully of what gout is abut from the attacks, but
that is not the real problem. The problem is that your body is not
getting rid of uric acid as fast as it is being made or eaten. I
believe it is not known whether people who have high uric acid levels
and who do not have gout, also store uric acid but gout people do, in
point of fact, store large amounts of uric acid in their bodies and
this accumulation of uric acid is thought to take from 10 to 15 years
to break out into a gout attack.
I'll repeat that because it is critical that we understand this. Our
bodies accumulate uric acid for 10 to 15 years before an inflammation
attack happens.
You can eat this and you can eat that, you can even stop eating
those, but unless you are prepared to eat marginally for 10 to 15
years, you are not going to be able to get the gout to go away and it
is doubtful that you or anyone really knows whether this or that food
is the right thing to eat, or not eat, long term.
Your gout attack will go away for periods of time but unless you get
the total uric acid level in your body down, you will eventually have
another attack.
There is no accepted and widly practice way to determine what your
total uric acid level is. It can be determined and it is something
that can be done but it is just not common procedure and it just
isn't done.
Some of the new drugs that are being tested, under non-disclosure,
may allow some of the people to get away from gout without
allopurinol. Those who have the kind of gout that is caused by
otherwise normal kidneys that end up retaining too much uric acid, to
get an overall lowered uric acid levels by altering the set point for
how much urate the kidney takes out. I know of three drugs that have
been successful at this but all three had side affects that made the
drugs ineffective for normal treatment. I know that there are two
more in the pipeline that have been a lot better at the side effects
but I am not pirvy to the information on the progress on those two.
Otherwise, there is allopurinol.
It works.
Moreover, if you stay on it for 3 years I believe you can reasonably
expect to be able to reduce your dosage.
Anything else you do to relieve gout is a shell game and you are
fooling yourself. You can delay the onset, you can relieve the pain
and you can even tell yourself that you are doing yourself a favor by
avoiding a drug regime on an every day basis so you must be doing
yourself a favor.
BS
You are asking for trouble.
Fifteen years is how long you have been accumulating uric acid in
your system and now that it has broken out into open warfare in your
toe, you own it and you will own it for as long as you live. There is
no cure and you will not be able to eat around it. You can eat to
delay it and you can certainly eat to bring the attack on-how many
times have I done that? If you take your purene consumption to
0.00%, a guaranteed long term fatal diet I might add, you will not
stop gout. Your own body will manufacture enough uric acid to give
you more attacks.
Raad the literature or don't, your choice. I have presented this as
concisely as I can and if you don't want to hear or read what I have
to say here, I'm sure you will consider it biased.
Sorry, but I am a victim of my own bias, as are we all.

thank you arnold and also I must thank Yard ape also
Yardape I just happend on your post above on how your wife and
daughter
have to open bottles for you
You just scared the S&^% out of me
that is not the picture I have in mind for myself in 4 years
I have some of the 'purinol and will start taking it
as soon as this current attack dies down
and I will try my best to stay on it even when I think it's not doing
anything
But even on the medicine, after a couple of years let's say
should I still expect to have attacks
thanks again for the info
Chester

I'm 34 years old in 6 days
been having attacks since 2000
have had 2 "Cut the Damn foot off if I could get to my axe!" attacks
I Don't drink
I don't smoke
I had a big diet of junk food
I drink way too much soda
I have tried going vegetairian at times and still the beast arises
since a week ago sunday I have had only 2 double cheeseburgers,
2 chicken sandwiches, 2 chicken salads
(sure it looks like a lot when I type it all together)
In doing online research I get...
A BIG HEADACHE
Right now I am a little tender in my left ankle and I don't want to
do anything
to piss the Beast off and take me out of the game for another week or
2
Last attack put me on warning at my Job concerning my absences
I am taking my 'Indo but honestly I have never noticed any major
changes
I tried 2 at a time last attack and boy did it leave my head spacey
It seems as I perused this board that the 'Purinol is new life partner
for all sufferers
but I no that combining the 2 meds is HELL
what is the current consensus on the food arguement
one doctor said it really doesn't matter what I eat
and considering the past 4 years I can't see a clear pattern that
lead to my attacks
I have a very boring/fattening unsophisticated pallatte and most
nights it's
not if I was getting a super sized value meal but from which
Burger joint
'preciate the assists
Chester

I will be out of the office starting 12/03/2004 and will not return until
16/03/2004.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to either James Lavin, Charles Freedman, Rosalind
Thomas or Geoff Mitchell.

Any reason why gout attacks while your asleep. I woke up this morning with pain in my left ankle after one week of feeling no pain anywhere. This is my second attack since going on allopurinol (mid-Feb). I'm wondering if it is caused by my weight loss. Lost 8lbs. in the last three weeks. I'm scared to eat any kind of protein.

John I.

Your recovery after 3 month attack from hell was very similar to mine
after 6 weeks attack from hell. But low dose Colchicine and high
dose Indomethacin triggered the termination of my problem. I think
that the word "trigger" might be relevant.
Although it took you and me several days to recover fully (exactly
the same recovery rate) how much of that is attributable to straight
forward recovery of damage to the joints and how much to the gout
flare-up diminishing? What I mean is that I wonder if termination of
a gout attack is not in fact remarkably sudden, like turning off of a
tap, but that the recovery of the actual foot lags the termination of
the gout attack because of recovery of the damaged joints.
This might seem nit picking but with much lesser attacks in the past
I have felt gout literally ebb away, over a three of four minute
period. I had assumed that the crystals were simply dissolving, but
could that be right ? I have seen another comment like this on this
notice board in the past but in that case the writer assumed that it
was the deposits being removed flushed off I seem to remember were
his words. But as you explain (and I completely misunderstood)
deposits aren't like that. Deposits are as mono sodium urate, uric
acid, in the fatty tissue (which I had read several times and then
completely forgot !). Clearly such deposits in the fatty tissue
couldn't just flush off.
But in my case I have neither put on nor lost weight so where did the
deposits go to or come from. My shoe size has not altered from 9.
My feet were swollen (the gout moved from one foot to the other)
during, and for a period after the major gout attack, but they have
recovered to their normal size. Could the deposits really accumulate
in the fatty tissue of your feet just because that is where the gout
is ? Could the deposits be clearing from around the body (as others
suggest) ? So that, as the deposits near the other foot (in your
case) clear, so gout is initiated in that foot ?
Of course the crystals could be just dissolving, as I had previously
assumed, but I really wonder if it is the crystals causing the pain
(as Arnold believes) or if it is a chemical reaction caused by the
release of the enzymes from the phagocytes (I have to go back to my
school biology days to remember these words). It certainly feels
more like a chemical burning sensation to me. If there are crystals
everywhere in all the joints and it is the physical broken glass
nature of the crystals that causes the pain, then why don't we have
pain everywhere ?
Also how can the crystals dissolve ? It is possible, though
unlikely, that my serum urate level could have been tripping around
the magic figure of 416 (the approximate level at which urate is
supersaturated in plasma) in my previous attacks but as Arnold points
out, so what ? The only place that matters is in the synovial fluid
could the ph there have been changing so rapidly ?
Maybe I just dreamt this ebbing away thing.
But also, as I say, I have had several minor gout attacks over the
years, what caused this to be the Rottweiler of all attacks. None of
the normal descriptions of acute gout talk about Rottweiler attacks
like your three monther ? But I now discover that it is not rare.
Worst of all your comment that "while taking your Allopurinol you
ain't out of the woods by a long site" is prescient. I had a funny
feeling that that was going to be the case!

Thanks to Arnold (and Walter) for your comments on my post, which was
trying to summarise my understanding on this iniquitous disease. It
is very kind of you to comment like this. I have read and re-read
what you have written and taken it all in, but may I make some
comments of my own.
The interesting thing, it seems to me, is this "gout attack waiting
to happen" issue.
I understand your point that we have crystals in the synovial fluid
caused by excess uric acid in the synovial fluid, which is related
somehow to excess uric acid in the blood. Reduce uric acid at source
(i.e. in the blood) cures the crystal problem in the synovial fluid.
Lots of articles that I have read refer to a BUILD-UP of uric acid
(for which I THINK that the correct term is serum urate) in the
blood. They also refer to DEPOSITS of crystals.
So we seem to have a time delay on the fuse with things building up.
Presumably this might be what causes the gaps between attacks.
Logically a build-up of serum urate should lead (in the case of
susceptible people) to a build up in the synovial fluid and therefore
a build-up of the deposits of crystals.
But can that be true ? My uric acid has been down at 464 then 362
(reported as 3.62 which I assume is simply a decimal point issue)
then 548. This doesn't seem to be a build-up as such. It seems to
me that it fluctuates during the phase of a gout attack and then
returns to a sort of standard high level during the intervening phase.
Maybe they mean a build up in the synovial fluid. That would make
more sense, and suggests a delayed transfer from the stable high
level in the blood.
Then there is the comment that "uric acid levels drop [during a gout
attack] because so much of it has left the bloodstream and is now
crystallised in the joint fluid". I have read this several times in
other articles as well.
But can that be true? How much mass of crystals would need to be
formed to remove all that uric acid out of the blood and why doesn't
the kidneys simply top up the reduced uric acid in the blood again.
And if the drop off of uric acid in the blood can happen so fast
(i.e. during the phase of a gout attack) it seems to suggest that the
idea of a slow delay in build up can't be right.
And if crystals build up, and if it is the physical shape of the
crystals (your nasty jagged particles of glass like substance) that
causes the pain, then why doesn't the pain build up slowly as the
deposits of crystals build up ?
As an engineer (so you can see why I am like a blind person stumbling
along in this field) it seems to me more logical that some other
control mechanism must be at work, which I have attributed (in my
ignorance) to other enzymes.
Nevertheless I take your point entirely that the formation of
xanthine is an intermediate stage in the production of uric acid and
that the enzyme xanthine oxidase (XO)[which presumably initiates this
formation] is inhibited by Allopurinol. I understand that reducing
serum urate levels solves the problem of crystals in the synovial
fluid anyway, so I appreciate that I am being pedantic and everything
else is just academic. Just take the pill and get your life back
seems good enough advice to me.
But it is interesting to realise just how little we know about all
this other than that crystals precipitate out of solution past a
certain ph level. If it were down to me I would give the medics all
the research money they want to get a bit further on this one. But
then I am biased.

some breaking news...dairy is good for gout, vegetable purines not a
cause for.

It seems to me that gout is all about enzymes.
Urate crystals form, caused by high acid levels but this causes no
problems on their own. I have been told that Gout sufferers tested
between flare-ups show crystals in the joints but the crystals have
no effect. Then something (an enzyme?) triggers white cell
response. This is an ALLERGIC reaction? White cells engulf urate
crystals, assuming that they are bacteria, and start to whack the
pseudo bacteria with deadly enzymes. Sharp edged crystals rupture
cell walls, enzymes are released, hell fire and damnation let loose.
Body reacts. Kidneys go into overdrive chucking out uric acid (I
suspect that this is why with some people like me the serum urate
level drops to low levels, confusing the GPs).
This however has NO effect on the pain because there is still an
enzyme WAR going on down there one of those nasty little African
wars, which involve lots of killing and maiming, and mutilated bodies
left in ditches under the hot sun it is no point screaming you
little shit because no one will hear you!
In comes colchicine and NSAIDS such as Indomethacin. Body starts to
belch and burp (sorry about that !) and brain floats on cloud nine
but the rebels are more or less disarmed.
However while the attack was taking place and apparently for a time
after (and this is the bit that I am trying to understand - if ayone
has any views on the subject) the liver goes haywire.
In my case Aspartate Transferase goes to 72 out of its range 15-40,
Alanine Transferase goes to 157 out of its range 10-50 and Gamma GT
goes to 59 out of its range 9-40. Shit this looks bad - but who
knows? Look at that Alanine Tranferase, whatever the hell that is,
I'm a gonner ! (this is clearly why you should never, ever, let the
patient copy down notes off the pathology report).
Uric acid goes back to what I expect is my normal (bad) level of 5.48.
Ok lets deal with the uric acid. So wait until the enzyme war dies
down in my foot (or at least disappears out of the newspapers), then
slowly introduce Allopurinol.
And what does that do? It inhibits the ENZIME xanthine oxidase.
What is going on with these enzimes???

My initial thoughts about this question of peoples attitude to gout
suffers was that I can now have lots of sex. After all if gout is
caused by MEAT, RICH, FOODS, and ALCOHOL (as per Arnold's comments)
that still leaves me with SEX. OK so meat, rich, food and alcohol
have lead me to gout after 53 years but I've had a bloody good 53
years and now I can look forward to plenty of sex in my old age.
But is this not just denial ? The fact is that I love meat, I love
being rich (by any sort of world standard), I love good food and I
love alcohol lets face it I'm addicted to effete western society !
I take Arnold's point about curing uric acid at source with
allopurinol primarily to get me back to meat, rich, food and
alcohol - but this might be a bit of a cop out. The real point is
that "90% of people with high uric acid levels never get gout". Well
lots of people who smoke cigarettes never get heart disease YEA BUT
SOME DO and so it is still worth cutting out the fags.
I remember my grandfather used to buy tins of 50 cigarettes at a time
and used to smoke about 70 a day, it never seemed to do him any harm
and he died in his 80's of something totally unrelated. Yet I can't
say that I am unhappy that my daughters don't smoke.
Also although I am not (very) obese (I am six foot and weigh 85kg)
and I don't have symptoms of chronic alcoholism (in that I can
abstain for the last two months without any craving) but I do I
mean did - drink beer regularly. The fact is that I am a typical
rich (by my parents standards) under-exercised middle-aged man who,
amazingly, has never skied at all and therefore I am probably a
fairly typical gout sufferer.
If 90 percent of people with high uric acid levels never get gout
then 10 percent do and that 10 percent apparently includes me !
Maybe I should face up to the fact that that's just the tough shit
way things work out in life.
Maybe gout sufferers like me can't expect much sympathy and
therefore not the investment in medical research that this disease
obviously calls for - unless we first face up to that fact the meat,
rich, food, alcohol do actually play a big part in this. In fact
more and more (especially as I read Walter's post), I am beginning to
see this as a liver dysfunction (crazy enzymes) and that the kidneys
and those white cells have just got a lot of bad press.
But hay, drugs weren't on that list either ! I still get sex and
drugs that can't be bad.

We are a group of postgraduate students working on a project on gout.
We would be most grateful if everyone could complete the following
survey for us, thank you so much.
1. Do you suffer from gout? Did your G.P. diagnose you quickly
and correctly?
2. Do you know other people who suffer from gout? If so, how
many?
3. Where do you obtain information on gout currently?
4. What sort of information on gout unavailable currently would
you like to receive?
5. Would you be prepared to pay for information on gout? If so,
how much per piece?
6. Where do you come across advertising and promotion on
information for gout currently? Is there any other medium you
would recommend for this purpose?
7. How would you like your information on gout to be delivered?
Verbal, post, electronic mail, etc.?

As amazing as it may sound many people do not realize how easy it is
to LEGALLY stop paying for their groceries! This is how the one hour
television show began for the company whose website is at:
http://www.wrldofproducts.com I thought it was very interesting and
decided to check it out. I am very skeptical by nature so the first
thing I did was check out the company. I contacted the Better
Business Bureau and found that the company has had no complaints
lodged against them, I also contacted Paypal who has verified this
company. They told me that they verified the company's licenses, bank
accounts and other paperwork indicating to them that the company is
legitimate. Then I started asking co-workers and friends about this
program and to my surprise 6 out of the 10 people that I spoke with
were already using this program. They told me how pleased they were
with it and how much money they had saved and are currently saving.
So I decided to sign up for this program on 2/3/04. On 2/7/04 I
received my complete membership package and the fun began. Using
their program and the free lifetime membership that it includes I
went to the supermarket ready to make a killing. The cashier rang up
my grocery bill and it came out to $239.87 then I presented her with
the coupons I received from this program and I saved $223.38 - my
final bill was only $16.49! The cashier wasn't the only one shocked.
This program has changed my life!!!

I have read an article today endorsed by the uk gout society. The basis of the article tells us all everything we know about how gout is produced and where we got it from and how to prevent it (take Alloprinol and make lifestyle changes). It did also confirm that the Japanese are developing a new drug that works the same was as allopurinol but metabolises in the liver as opposed to the kidney.
It also goes on to say the Americans are investigating ways to treat a patient with Uricase which is an enzyme present in mammals but not humans, it processess uric acid into a form that can be excreted in the urine. These drugs are years off at the moment.
I have now been gout free for two weeks having been on alloprinol for the last six weeks. I feel as though I am now getting my life back.
For those of you out there who think its not worth going on drugs or you are too proud to have to admit that you can beat gout on your own, THINK and THINK again because you cant. Trust me it took 10 years for me to find out. I tried all the herbal cures. I used all the excuses that it was an injury ( I was too young to have gout surely 33!!) When I finally went to the docs and they gave me diclofenac i used them sparingly. As soon as an attack went away I would save the tablets knowing that I could use them if another attack flared, and so it went on for 3/4 years until I joined this group and got to put all of the pieces of the jigsaw together. I HAD GOUT, I had a lifestyle that was a breeding gorund for uric acid. I loved my beer, seafood, steaks, I did not drink the gallons of water that I drink now.
Every so often i would think "its time to do something" so I joined a gym and exercised so hard and then wham I got gout (The excuse was an injury) so it took a few weeks before I could go back to the gym and then start again WHAM gout again. So then it was diet - what diet - atkins diet and WHAM i got gout again. All this yo yoing of my lifestyle was supposed to help but all the time it was a ticking bomb and I had no idea I was detonating it all the time.
My intention now is to diet slowly 1-2 pounds a week ( I am 20st aka 280 lbs). I am exercising (20 mins walks at the moment) and taking allopurinol and drinking a gallon of water a day. I still have to reduce the beer intake.
Thanks to all the posts I have read on this group, I hope to have a gout free(ish) life from now on
Health and happiness to all in this group.
Tony

I've been suffering gout attacks once a year for 3 years. I am not
on allipurinol but do take Indomethicin for attacks. My question:
I am 43 and went for a physical and because my cholesterol is 233
(down from 273 9 months ago)the doctor wants to put me on a low carb
diet or go on cholesterol drugs in 3 months if it is not lowered. I
am in very good shape 6' 265lbs. My urich level 7.3 (down from 10
last summer)any comments on the effect of a low carb diet and gout.
It seems that the group believes high protien = high purines. I am
torn over what to do. Comments appreciated
Thanks!
Steve

Its not just 'low carb' but whether there is high
protein or high fat to replace the carbohydrates.
I imagine more damage would be likely in the high
protein diet than the high fat, but there does not
seem to be any studies on the issue.
There is some "evidence" presented but it is offered
by a very politically active pro-vegan group that
opposes the Atkins diet for more political than
medical reasons.
I was on a extremely low carbohydrate diet with most
of my diet consisting of sausages, pot roasts, steaks.
I had my first attack about a week after ending the
diet (and the high water intake).
What this means for others is unknown.

Hi Folks
Anyone here tried Acupuncture during an attack. I had
my first session this week (been in the middle of a 3
week attack in my wrist) and I've got to admit it
really helped.
Also does anyone know of any links between gout and
carpal tunnel syndrome? I've been doing a little self
diagnosis. The general syemptoms I have during an
attack i.e the joint is very hot to touch and
uncomfortable during the night I haven't had. Needless
to say my doctor was not interested in my theories on
Carpal Tunnel and sent me on my way with a
prescription for Vioxx. Got to say the acupuncture
worked way better than any of the painkillers I've
tried before.

I will be out of the office starting 05/03/2004 and will not return until
10/03/2004.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to either James Lavin, Charles Freedman, Rosalind
Thomas or Geoff Mitchell.

Hi folks,
My wife Freda asked me to post an up-date on her gout history covering the
last five
or six weeks. It runs as follows:
"Jan 20...vicious attack, unable to walk so telephoned surgery for advice and
was
allowed to increase allopurinol by 100 mg to 200 mg but told to stay quietly
at home
without stress as a precaution against another attack due to change of dose.
Five
days later I had another attack but it was less severe. I have had an early
morning attack every day for many months but since I started on allopurinol six
months ago
the attacks are just as frequent but diminishing in severity. I am hoping my
doc will
prescribe 300 mg when I see him next week. I had a blissful four consecutive
days
in February when I had no attack at all. I maintain my unappetising
non-purine diet
and shall continue until or if the allopurinol kicks in. For some reason my
body does not tolerate colchicine, anti-inflammatories or pain-killers.
Paracetamol makes things
worse....attacks just have to be toughed out.
Whether or not I have gout has never been determined since no synovial fluid
has ever
been examined and my uric acid level has been marginal. I may well have
secondary gout due to a prescribed course, four years ago, of thyazide diuretics
for a suspected
hypertension which, it appears now, I did not have. The vicious attacks tie
in so well
with the gout group's anecdotal evidence and Bryan Emmerson's excellent
"Getting
rid of gout" book, that I am keeping within the dietary restrictions relating
to purines
on the assumption that I have it (gout).
Triggers for an attack for me are: CORN STARCH (hydrogenated), CORN SYRUP,
DEXTROSE, FRUCTOSE, all the proscribed PROTEINS, every FRUIT JUICE except cherry
and pineapple, in fact pretty well every tasty morsel except ALMONDS,
BRAZILS, HAZELNUTS, COCONUT, PINENUTS, COURGETTES, ONIONS, LEEKS,
BROCCOLI, BUTTERNUT SQUASH, VEG., MARROW, COTTAGE CHEESE, EGGS,
MILK, YOGHURT, CANTALOUPE MELON, CHERRIES and PINEAPPLE. Of the
alternatives...I tried cherry juice but it was 42% sugar and water which I
didn't like.
Chanca Piedra seems unavailable over here (in UK) but in any case the
manufacturers state it is not a cure.
Strange that we will pop a vitamin pill without question and yet baulk at a
pharma-
ceutical tablet ! Vitamins and herbs can be poisonous to some susceptible
people
and taken in excess can do serious harm.
We look forward to the e-mails....thank you Don, Arnold, Walter et al for
giving us
so much well researched info and anecdotal evidence. It is a life-line and
most comforting.
My present query is about SODIUM. Large intakes of water dilute our sodium
levels
To rehydrate we need salt, don't we ? This will not help hypertension, will
it ? Does
salt affect gout ?
Walk and ski well and keep taking the pills,
Thank you all
Freda Bassett"

My log for 2003.... attacks and triggers.

4/2/03 start Allpurinol 300mg.

***************
4/28/03 left knee and calf (steak)
***************

5/25/03 right ankle (hamburger)

***************
6/12/03 right foot (Sausage)
***************
7/2/03 left ankle (shrimp)
***************

7/22 -7/23 left heal (??)

***************
8/6/03 top left foot (??)

***************

9/25/03 Left knee (Ground beef)
****

Today is 3/3/04.

No attacks since 9/25/03 KNOCK ON WOOD!!!! I just did 3 days at Disney World. Sea food buffet, hot dogs and pizza. Lots of abuse on me feet. Dehydration (first day was cold weather, barely drank water). Third day pushing wheel chair with grandparent. I felt soreness in feet but no attack. Daily taking Allpurinol, Colchicine and Diclofenac. It working for me. Hopefully will drop other drugs at next blood work and only take Allpurinol. I have not tried prime rib again but that will be the test for me.

Take Care,

Michael ValeCruz

Sorry about this..NOT meaning to hijack the thread/start a new
one..BUT this topic..gout/exercise..can and probablly WILL..almost
100% guaranteed..put some people on the wrong track..I am SURE I will
get emails over this..
VERY FEW! people are as pro exercise/fitness/health as I am..and
just as few get as much as I do..I am 100% for almost anyone getting
more exercise!!.it is REALLY GREAT!! and I MEAN IT!!! to see others
coming back from the "land of gout"..I certainlly have..been crippeld
by it..
But you know..people are going to read this..and they're gonna
try it..and you know what's going to happen?I do.'Cause I've studied
this long enough.They're going to get gout attacks..and end up worse
off then before.This is NOT anecdotal.There is a lot of clinical
evidence..as well as anecdotal..that exercise..hard work..causes gout
attacks.Period.If you are predisposed to gout..this is s SERIOUS!!
trigger..it raises the uric acid level in the blood..because of the
cell death/breakdown..plus if you are changing your diet..burning off
fat..this only adds to the problem..
Many,many people have been turned off exercise..and worsened by
gout because of this.DO NOT!!! let this happen to you.
There is NOT ONE SHRED of evidence ANYWHERE that exercise is good
for gout..exercise that is that causes cell death..and most even
light exercsie can cause this..AND plenty of evidence to the contrary.
We get right back to basic blood uric acid levels..AND we gotta
lower them..diet can have a very minor effect on them..NOT
exercise!!..exercise can cause the bodies natural production level of
uric acid to rise substantially..and then you end up with even more
of the stuff in your blood..AND joints..
It is entirely possible that someone could work out to the point
where they lowerred their uric acid level and defeated gout.It could
be done..eventually..MAYBE..a great amount of weight losss..drastic
diet/lifestyle change..I doubt it..and have NEVER heard of it..read
of it.
For almost ALL of the rest of us poor gout sufferers..no matter
what else we do..it all ends up to LOWERRING uric acid levels.
Allopurinol will make them plunge..and for all intents and
purposes fix the gout.The allopurinol will deal with the increased
levels of uric acid being produced.Allopurinol and exercise..GREAT!!
GREAT!! combo.Exercise and no allopurinol..
I've read/heard simply too many SAD,SAD stories about
people..athletic..active..fit..weight lifters..etc.,etc., people that
I could not reach..they were NEVER going to take drugs(allopurinol)
EVERY day..they were going to beat it this way..they simply got
beaten,broken down so many times that they simply gave up.
ANY expert on gout will say that DO NOT upset the balance of uric
acid..either lowerring it..raising it too fast.Lower it slowly..AND
keep doing it..keeping it low!
As for even moderate exercise in a gout sufferer..I'ld say..if
you're NOT on allopurinol..again..head to the Dr..monitor your blood
uric acid levels..regularly
Gout is a MEAN,CRUEL disease..people can..and do..head down the
road to meet this monster head on.Diet,exercise..they feel
GREAT!..more dieting.MORE!! exercise..all the while..sneakily..the
evil is being done..the uric acid level in the blood is rising..more
and more is being deposited in the joints..maybe they are close..the
blood uric acid levels have not been monitored..it can now actually
at some point being artificially low..the body being unable to
eliminate the excess..the excess NOW being in the joints..WHAMMO!
gout attack..the now lower uric acid levels baffle physician and
patient..
The attack goes..and as always returns..WORSE!
Go for the allopurinol and exercise.

Hi
I'm in the middle of an attack that seems to have
lasted around 3 weeks. It started just after I'd
kicked off with 300Mg of Allopurinol, before that I'd
tried to stay clear of Allopurinol but found the
attacks to be happening on a regular basis so thought
it was best to try them again. I also was taking Cod
Liver oil tablets which may not have helped matters
from some of the comments I've read? Has anyone else
had a bad reaction once they have started taking
Allopurinol. I know the advice is to not take during
an attack. I've also got Indomethacin but I'm finding
this isn't much use. Anyone now if Vioxx is any good?
Thanks for your time.

I haven't been at this board in a few months, but my toe hurts (much
better today) and I thought I'd share this bit on info. with the
group (though I'm sure it's been shared before)...
My mother was reading The Washington Post (so, you know, it's gotta
be true)! and there was a bit about how more and more younger people
are coming down with gout due to diet, etc. (I'm 31). It said that
something that helps is exercise, something about it seems to break
up the uric acid and then you can seemingly "flush" it out of your
system with water (something we all know that helps).
This is all I know, ever since New Year's I've been swimming and
hitting the gym, not like every day or anything, but I try to
exercise at least a few times a week. Granted, my gout isn't nearly
as bad as some described here (I've only had a couple of outbreaks
with only the first being bad and I mean "bad" as in "Jesus, just
cut off my foot" bad).
Anyway, I thought I'd pass that on. And for any impending
questions, yes, I know it's hard to exercise when you can't even
walk or much less put on a shoe. I've been there myself and it
sucks. Just wanted to pass this on...

Recently there was a post on this thread wherein a man
recounted the many drugs he was on and the presumed
effect on prescribing that is had by attractive young
females formerly referred to as 'detailmen' but now
referred to as Pharmaceutical Representatives.
Recent surveys have found that particularly the
elderly are likely to have drugs misprescribed.
One study from Germany took the literature sent by the
Pharmaceutical companies to the doctors and analyzed
the scientific claims as well as the articles cited in
support of them and found that SIX percent of the
information was valid.
Drugs that make it to market have been tested on very
few people and it is often better to use an older drug
than a newer one.

I just started taking allopurinol 300mg at a cost of USD$ 19.68. for a quantity of 30 pills. It is the generic form called mylan. Is this to expensive? I saw some at costco for much cheaper like around $9.00.

John Ichiba

There was an old woman who swallowed a fly.
I don't know why she swallowed....
There was an old woman who swallowed a spider
She swallowed theider to catch the fly ...
and on and on and on....
If you look carefully at the medication that older people, 80+, take,
it seems like the above nursery rhyme.....
You never seem to be able to understand why the first med is
necessary in the first place....

I'm 36 & had various attacks over the years particularly achilles & knee.

I'm currently under attack on my knee & am taking colchicinne for the 1st time

the attack started 30 hours ago, initially i took two tiny 500mcg & am now taking

1 every 4 hours.

My knee is very stiff & sore but not a full blown attack, as i can walk very

slowly with pain.

2 questions

Is it the colchinne that has stoppped this being a full 100% no knee movement attack

what are the signs that its working.

All over this message board i've been reading about the horrific side effects of colcichine

but have experienced absolutely nothing yet? is it still to come ? am i on a small dose ?

comments appreciated

I will be out of the office starting 26/02/2004 and will not return until
02/03/2004.
I will respond to your message when I return. If the matter is urgent,
please forward your email to either James Lavin, Charles Freedman, Rosalind
Thomas or Geoff Mitchell.

i have found that in certain situations, weed can make
gout better, and in some situations make it worse.
i would say that the actual pain levels at the source
of the attack, in my foot or hand or whatever (gout
seems to like my right foot and right hand most of the
time these days) -increase slightly, but the rest of
my body can relax, rather than being in a constant
state of muscular tension *in case* i knock it. so the
actual gout pain gets a miniscule amount worse, but
the overall effect is that you care about the pain
less, your mind wanders more (which will reduce how
much you feel the pain) and overall i find it
beneficial.
**note, if i am in the middle of a raging,
i-want-the-doctor-to-cut-my-hand-off attack, i wouldnt
touch it, just in case.
dave

cannabis
sativa.

Hey Harry Canyon,
sorry to hear of the loss, Glad you are better,, I swing a hammer
too. Martial arts ,photography, music,surf/state boarder etc .I do
all my own repairs around the house(cheap skate).dont ride a bike
though.Yes it is tough putting all the fun stuff on the back burner.
It is a personal quest for me to get better(gout Free)blood pressure
a little high from gout also. I wish us all luck (every gout sufferer
in the world )Another question for everyone Where is the lowest
percentage of gout suffers in the world ? I think (if memory serves)
that Polynesions have the highest per capita
Anyone ? Anyone? Bueller ? Bueller?

Subject: High Blood Pressure
High blood pressure, hypertension, is associated with
gout. Moreover they can actually induce high blood
pressure in rats with high doses of uric acid.
High blood pressure is also associated with heavy
metals, particularly Pb. So is gout.
Yet try getting quacks to test you lead levels if you
have either disease much less both.

Hello there,
Anyone suffered with hives while taking allopurinol, and if so how to stay on the allopurinol and keep hives at bay ?
Eddie G

One of the most precious things gout has stolen from me is my
martial arts ability. I have trained in numerous arts for over
twenty five years and hold several black belts (my highest being a
3rd degree black in Kenpo). I used to train and teach daily, and
competed on a regular basis (I have a room full of trophies that now
just stand as monuments to a love lost).
In Texas, we have concealed handgun permits available to those who
pass the tests and pay the fees. I have done so, and I do carry a
sidearm. What bothers me is that before gout ate me up, I could
defend myself in most any situation with non-lethal force with my
hands and feet- now if I am faced with a threatening situation my
option is draw and shoot, which I must admit I have moral problems
with- not to mention the nightmare of legalities.
Gout takes away more from our lives than just mobility.