Allopurinol for Life?

2006-12-31 21:27:42

It would seem then, that some maintenance dosage of
allopurinol is likely going to be necessary and that
although it is possible to go off allopurinol entirely
those who do so are likely to have the uric acid
levels rebound but would presumeably be able to resume
their use of allopurinol at that time.
Somewhat akin to those who end their high levels of
water intake, the higher test results or the
perception of an attack beginning would induce them to
resume the high water intake, but there does not seem
much of a liklihood of any particular damage from the
altered routine.

bee venum cream?

2006-12-31 20:42:16

Does anyone have any comment on this? Someone I know told me that they know
someone who uses it, but didnt know much more that that. This was the first
I've heard of it.
MikeyB
Baltimore MD USA
ps, i am having my first attack since buying 10lbs of dreid cherries and
concentrate a while back. I think its working, that and tylenol.
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Allopurinol for life ??

2006-12-31 16:03:49

Are there any studies that actually show that
Allopurinol must be taken forever?
Most medical studies don't follow patients
for more than 26 weeks anyway.
Is there really some sort of complete loss
of benefit if one stops taking Allopurinol?
Do uric acid levels immediately go right
back up if someone goes off Allopurinol?

new to group

2006-12-31 04:59:33

Hello everyone,
My name is Deedee and I'm new to this group. Thank you for welcoming
me. My boyfriend has had gout (self diagnosed) for about a year.
His dad also has it(medical diagnosis). He had one bad experience
with the docs and refuses to go back. I cant say I blame him, seeing
that the doc was new and tried to draw fluid from his ankle during a
full blow attack 4 times and still couldn't get it. He also refuses
to take any western medicine. I thought this group would be the best
sorce of info for him. He has modified his lifestyle and his eating
habits. He is currently taking devil's claw which is a root extract.
It seems to help. Can anyone offer us any other advice or tips. What
are some things he can eat (seems like nothing yummy)? This is very
dibilitating at times and often leaves him on crutches. I'd like to
do anything to help him. Thanks for any suggestions!
Deedee

allopurinol and prozac

2006-12-31 04:47:18

do these two drugs mix okay? does anyone have any
experience as to whether it makes a difference to
attacks ( i would assume that any difference would be
worse attacks ,but you never know!)
cheers
dave

Cherries

2006-12-30 11:27:50

We visited out Dr and he would not put my husband on alpunirol. He
gave him some pain meds to take if a flare up happend and said don't
take asprin. The very day we came home from the Dr we received our
first shipment of Cherry Rx that we ordered from cherrycure.com He
was still having trouble with his great toe...swollen, purple,
painful! This was two weeks ago Thursday. Prior to this, he would
start feeling brave enough to have a beer and by the next day or two
the "twinge" and swelling would return. He began taking the juice
twice a day and within a week was walking like a normal person
(haven't seen that in a while) He is now back to his normal beer
routine, eating peanuts (they always set him off) and has no pain. I
know some of you are going to dispute that something can work as well
as a natural product can, but we are keeping out fingers crossed that
by using this on a daily basis can keep him pain free. I spoke to a
couple that purchased this product in July and he has been pain free
since. He has had gout since his 20's and is now 36.
(ok attack away!)
Pam :o)

Humorous Fungii

2006-12-30 09:44:09

Okay.
I know you have all said such things as trite, absurd,
jackass and other such examples of civil discourse.
I have suggested a variety of fundamental causative
and contributing factors.
Each is supported by a considerable amount of
scientific evidence and is biologically plausible.
None of this is equivalent to UFOs or Pyramids.
I'm not saying that any of it is proven conclusively,
nor have I ever maintained that. I have explored
logically relevant matters of causation and
exacerbation.
Throughout history, prior to our knowledge of
microbiology, there were beliefs in an infectious
agent playing a role in gout.
I will admit that Pasturella Multocida and also
mycological influences are rarely identified in gout.
Ofcourse, they are also rarely looked for in gout
patients too. Although rarely identified, it is not
unknown and it is not in any way absurd. Fungal
etiology has been addressed by a number of
researchers, it has been published in medical journals
and presented at international conferences. If you do
not want to believe in it, that is fine. I've posted
about these various additional factors to stimulate
discussion of the issues, but so far it seems to have
met only with ridicule despite the biological
plausibility. I do not dispute your assertion that
'mycological rhymes with illogical'. I do, however,
dispute that the rhyming dictates the functional
relationship.

Posts from Don - My 2vcents

2006-12-30 07:50:15

"Your posts do not help, they take time to read and they are
irrelevent."

Perhaps Don is saying something in his posts, but his writing is so technical and riddled with scientific jargon that I don't understand most of it. I have a BA in journalism and read widely, but I am not a doctor, biologist, or any other kind of scientist. I readily understand what I read in the NY Times and other publications meant for regular people like me. I understand Carl Sagan's writings because he was smart enough to know his audience (regular folks like me) and not write over their heads. Most scientists are incapable of doing this, and that is Don's problem (one of them). If he really wants to be helpful, rather than just showing off, he would write in plain English, but that's harder to do than parroting meaningless jargon that most of us don't understand.

Negevoli

whatzit?

2006-12-30 02:45:53

What conditions could cause pain in the muscle or ligaments, or
tendons near a knee joint or my heel area (not sure exactly what is
hurting, but it isn't in the joint like gout is)?
This condition recurs periodically, and by the time I can make an
appointment and get in to see my doctor, the pain has gone. The pain
process usually starts and stops within a two week period. I've had
this happen to my Achilles and heel, too. I need to know what to use
as a departure point with the doctor; i.e., what I suspect might be
wrong.
I know this isn't exactly the right forum to ask this in, but if I
can get a good lead as a suspect cause, I can then hunt a better
forum or group.

GC

2006-12-29 16:17:29

Hello,

Anybody has any input/info on GC(Gour Cure) product?

Immune System "alert" signal.

2006-12-29 11:38:00

The portions of my posting which relate to the nature
of the immune system as being not merely 'self versus
non-self' but being more 'threat detection and
assessment' are from a variety of sources and the best
information for you would be a good treatise on
immunology or vaccine response or bio-terrorist
response. It is one of the reasons anthrax is so
dangerous: its 'foreign' but the immune system
does little more than "yawn" when presented
with anthrax. Its small, its simple, and its foreign,
but its not viewed as a serious threat by the
immune system. That is why many vaccines need
haptogens to be effective, larger molecules that
the immune system "sees" and also sees as
being a higher level threat.
I'm sure you recall my previous postings about Dr.
Costantino [sp?] formerly of SF Medical School as
asserting gout is really fungal induced crystalization
and that all gout-related treatments are also fungal
treatments and that is why they are effective.
For the rest:
Nature. 2003 Oct 2;425(6957):516-21. Epub 2003 Sep 07.
Molecular identification of a danger signal that
alerts the immune system to dying cells.
Shi Y, Evans JE, Rock KL.
Department of Pathology, University of Massachusetts
Medical School, Worcester,
Massachusetts 01655, USA.
PMID: 14520412 [PubMed - in process]

Uric Acid as Major Immune System Signal

2006-12-29 04:29:57

Although there are competing theories about how the
immune sytem is alerted and there is some dispute as
to the chemicals involved in such signaling, it is now
believed that uric acid plays a major role in alerting
the immune system to danger.
The view of the immune system as 'self versus nonself'
is rather archaic and childish; it is more a 'threat
detection and assessment' system wherein one factor to
be assessed is 'self versus nonself'.
The two theories are often viewed as 'stranger' theory
versus 'danger theory'. While the immune system is
sometimes viewed as detecting alien chemicals
indicative of microbial invaders, it is also viewed as
detecting chemicals that indicate danger such as cell
distress and distruction signals.
Uric acid seems to be the primary immune system
'alarm' chemical. Obviously the level of uric acid
seems to play a role but it is the crystal form which
would be brought about by localized cell death that
seems to be the signal for the immune system.
This makes the urate crystals in gout of even greater
significance and also shows an even greater
significance to the the gout:mycology theory.

question

2006-12-28 22:27:49

no, but i've often pondered asking my doc to amputate
whilst in the middle of an attack.
d

Gout and exercise.

2006-12-28 20:14:02

Thought I'd pass along a tip for everyone who is attempting to
exercise when they have a very mild inflammation from gout.
Right now I am not having an attack, but there is decreased mobility
in my left great toe joint, and that telltale little needle stabbing
of pain if I bend it to the end of it's range of motion. All in all
this is good, because it is allowing me to get out and exercise -
dancing, walking, swimming. The dancing is where I ran into
trouble. I ended up with a nicely messed up calf muscle and plantar
facia. (the sole of the foot) This resulted in significant pain in
the heel of the foot near the achilles tendon.
Basically, the tip is make sure that you really care for your other
foot and leg, because whether you know it or not, you are likely
taking pressure off your gouty foot and moving it to the non-gouty
one. (if you're lucky enough to have a non-gouty one)
I hadn't been stretching enough after warming up or icing sore
muscles enough after exercise. (specifically for my non-gouty side)
Happy exercising all,
Rick.

Diet, seasonality, etc.

2006-12-28 12:08:13

Possibly, by influencing water intake, vitamin levels
but more likely its seasonality would be due to the
ultraviolet radiation affecting the immune system and
allowing a pre-existing fungal infection to take a
stronger hold.
That is not true.
Diet clearly influences gout.
Dark cherries clearly help though
don't expect miracles.
I don't think the aflatoxins in
peanut butter play a role but he
might as well stay off it for
another six months.
I know others on this list take that
Gatorade product but I think you might
want to read about fructose intake and
gout first, then decide.
History of cat bites?
Exposure to fungii?
tophaceous growths often cause loss of
the use of the foot and sometimes a
decision to surgically treat the foot
is made if tissue becomes deprived of
oxygen.
Tnx. It was one of the first articles
that I encountered in my research and
I thought highly of it too.
Perhaps we could establish a well
organized database of articles or
links to articles of that quality.

question

2006-12-28 04:58:37

i was wondering if anyone has heard of someone losing a foot or joint
to amputation due to long term gout, infections, etc...
thanks

this site contains good info

2006-12-28 01:50:19

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990215ap/925.html

Negevoli

Gout Tout

2006-12-27 22:16:18

Stay away from remedies touted on ebay or elsewhere
and stick to more proven and plausible remedies.
You should go over with him things like:
cat bites or other animal bites,
fungal exposure history,
diet should be pretty much the same for each of you,
but young females don't get gout.
You might want to get hold of the Gout Suffers
Cookbook. I think there are actually two volumes out
on low purine recipies.
You should focus on his fluid intake particularly his
water intake.
Is he on Allopurinol?
How many flareups does he average a year?

Hello...I'm new!

2006-12-27 07:43:45

Hi
My name is Pam and my husband got his first bout of gout 3 years ago.
He is 38. He also is a delivery vedor and on his feet all day. I
would give anything to help him get back to "normal". The other day I
was desperate and typed gout into ebay. This is what came up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=36446&item=2953794855
Do any of you know of this, tried this...or have any input?? We
received our first shipment today and look forward to what may lie
ahead. I have been reading what you all have been posting and am
wanting to learn more!
Thanks!

Net Critical Upgrade

2006-12-27 02:27:23

Microsoft All Products | Support | Search | Microsoft.com Guide
Microsoft Home
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[INLINE] System requirements Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP
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Water Intake

2006-12-27 02:02:00

I use to have 4 to 5 gout attacks a year before I started drinking
lots of water. I drink a gallon of water more or less a day and I
haven't had a major gout attack in over a year. I could probably get
by with drinking 3 liters a day of water but since I run and sweat I
drink the extra liter.

water as preventative

2006-12-26 15:29:25

i am not a drinker (water, soda, juice, liquor or anything!) and
actually took pride in the fact that i had followed my grandmother's
habit in this respect!
now i KNOW the difference!
when i have attacks i drink water continuously (i mean it .. every
waking second) during the day. i drink it while i think inside
myself that "this is just taking medicine" but in this form instead
of pills! if i dont drink tons of water i know i will be unable to
put on a pair of shoes so i will be house-bound even though i am
taking allopurinol. in eight hours once, when i was getting that
feeling in my toe of an attack-about-to-be, i drank four two liter
water bottles! i never got that particular attack so it certainly
has convinced me of the power of drinking water!
shouldnt the allopurinol (300mg) be preventing this? why take it if
its really water which is a sure thing preventative? i have only
been on allopurinol for just under three months.
thanks
:-)

Water intake.

2006-12-26 13:00:37

I find this somewhat akin to the advice concerning
losing weight: 'don't eat so much and exercise more'.
I have always had a poor sense of thirst and most
views now are that by the time the sense of thirst
kicks in, a male is often already dehydrated.
I do find that if I make an effort to buy containers
of water, its easier to track my intake. I also find
that carrying a collapsible cup with me helps since I
am more likely to use a water fountain. Also many
restaurants or lunch counters attempt to always use
very small glasses for water, insisting on a large
glass will help your intake.
QUESTION:
Just how much water do the subscribers
to this list drink on the 'average day'
when they are NOT subject to an attack
of gout?
And how much per day during a gout attack?

Low cost wonder treatment for gout

2006-12-26 11:18:30

As many of you know I have been researching this thing, this gout
thing, now for about 6 months and I have come to some conclusions.
However, a conclusion that we have all read about, and talked about,
hit me the other day and after having thought about it for a few
days, and it really does make sense.
What is the advise that accompanies any remedy for gout?
Well, it is "Drink lots of water!"
I have been given that advise, I have given that advise to others and
I have followed that advise each time I have been afflicted with the
pain. Moreover, to my not quantitative but pretty accurate
observations, drinking lots of water helps more than any other thing
I seem to be able to do.
Which brings me to the point of this tirade.
What do I do, and I will bet that you do, when your gout symptoms go
away?
Well, because of the information on purene and high levels of it in
this and that food we all have seriously altered out diets.
But....and here is the catch...
How many of us continue to drink a lot of water when we are not being
attacked?
In reality we live our lives gout free, how much, 75% of the time,
85% or even more. During that time I always have reverted back to my
old habits of drinking when I am thirsty. Sometimes I will drink a
little more thinking that, well I do need it for my gout, but I do
not seriously practice drinking an extra gallon, or two, of water
above and beyond my normal drinking requirements. Why? Because I just
don't think about it. I am willing to take 300 mg of allopurinol a
day but I don't force myself to drink the extra water.
The allopurinol may not hurt me but then again it probably will have
long term side effects. Some of them are known and some of them are
probably there and just not documented. It is, after all, a drug that
is altering my basic chemistry and, although I have committed to
eating my little pill each and every day, I fear it and I really
don't like it.
Now back to the water. What are the long term effects of drinking an
extra gallon or two of water each day? The major effect is that you
will have to go to the bathroom more often. I think that's probably
why I end up limiting my intake because of the inconvenience of
having to go so often.
The bottom line is this. If you double the water your kidneys process
each and every day of your life, particularly when you are not in the
throws of a gout attack, you will, in almost all cases of gout,
eliminate the gout. I don't have any data on this nor do I know if
there has been a study on it but it is simple logic.
If my body just barely makes it with the amount of water it has to
work with, that is makes it in terms of keeping up with the amount of
uric acid it has to get rid of each day, if I double that amount of
water each day, I am going to increase the amount of uric acid it is
able to excrete. It very well may not double it but it absoluely will
increase the excretion.
Therefore the number one recommendation for a gout patient:===
Drink at least 1 and preferably 2 extra gallons of water each and
every day of your life and it is particularly important to drink the
extra water when you are not being attacked by the unfiendly crystals
of Mono Sodiun Urate.
By the way, someone with a good lab could conclusively show what the
difference in uric acid excretion is, in normal gout sufferers, when
they are not under attack, when they drink twice as much water as
they normally do. In fact two 24 hour urine collections would tell us
how much difference the extra water would make. In fact my Doc might
be willing to run the test.
It the test has already been run, I'd like to read the descrtiption
of the study.
What I'm proposing here is that doubling your intake of water each
day of your life is a long term cure for gout.

Bug Advice

2006-12-25 20:35:43

Attachment(not stored)
bxiet.exe
Type:
audio/x-wav

newest microsoft critical pack

2006-12-25 18:06:02

Microsoft All Products | Support | Search | Microsoft.com Guide
Microsoft Home
[INLINE]
Microsoft Consumer
this is the latest version of security update, the "September 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which resolves all known security vulnerabilities affecting MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express as well as three newly discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to help maintain the security of your computer from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an malicious user to run executable on your computer. This update includes the functionality of all previously released patches.
[INLINE] System requirements Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP
[INLINE] This update applies to MS Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later
MS Outlook, version 8.00 and later
MS Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later
[INLINE] Recommendation Customers should install the patch at the earliest opportunity.
[INLINE] How to install Run attached file. Choose Yes on displayed dialog box.
[INLINE] How to use You don't need to do anything after installing this item.
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Your posts on nitrites, etc.

2006-12-25 12:37:42

I w3anted to keep it private, but you just claimed that no one else had objected to your asinine posts when you know doggone well I emailed you personally and called you, with all due respect, an ass for posting what you did. So you are less than scrupulous about even such minor things as who agrees with you or not. Pathetic. I do hope, however, that your condition improves, for what it's worth.

Negevoli

Green, ahem,,, "stuff" .

2006-12-25 05:32:06

Concerning the "cat bite" and gout theory,
The causative agent that has been identified from time to time in the
synovial fluid is Pasturella Multocida. This is quite common in the
upper respiratory tract of cats.
In humans there would be a variable response and it would be a
protracted response.
Probably a few months or more before there would be a few days of
green feces. This could well go un-noticed and even if noticed would
hardly be cause for any sort of alarm or even mention to a doctor.
A few years later... an attack of gout!
Now I doubt anyone on this list is going to want to run out to the
doctor and have him aspirate some synovial fluid from the great toe
and have it cultured on MacConkey's Agar Agar, however, on the off
chance that anyone on this list recalls the sequence of events: cat
bite, green feces briefly, and then later gout, they might want to
consider getting a petri dish and some agar agar.

Over my attack ?

2006-12-25 02:54:19

Am I over my attack?
Well, I am no longer swallowing Ibuprofen as if it
were candy and I am no longer hobbling about by means
of a mop-handle and pool cue.
I'm still wearing only soft shoes and walking very
slowly and only short distances however.
Is this 'over my attack'? I'm not sure. I'd like to
get to the point where I can wear a dress shoe if I'd
like to. I'd like to get to the point where I can walk
atleast one city block without feeling soreness in the
balls of my feet. I'd like to be able to flex my great
toe.
I'm not sure if its over with or not. Its surely no
longer so inflammed or painful, but I'm sure not back
to normal. Or perhaps I have to get used to a new
"normal". I don't know if it gets back to what it used
to be or if it just subsides but you still can't walk
right.

Mycological, Illogical Red Herrings

2006-12-24 16:11:54

"All of the biochemical findings in gout/hyperuricemia
are explainable by fungal production of preformed
urates/urate crystals."
Those who wish to equate this with a 'red herring'
because the man is 'retired' or because the school of
medicine is 'San Francisco' rather than Harvard may do
so. The purpose of my mentioning mycological influence
in gout was to stimulate research and discussion; it
was not to send people off on a useless tangential
path. Those who equate this with a red herring are
free to simply ignore it.
A Fungal/Mycotoxin Etiology of Gout and Hyperuricemia
A.V. Costantini, MD, Clinical Faculty (retired)
University of California School of Medicine San
Francisco
Gout and hyperuricemia are clinical entities of
previously unknown etiology. Fungi/mycotoxins have
been ignored as the documented cause of both entities.
The etiopathogenetic mechanisms are not the usual
patterns of invasive-type mycoses nor of
mycotoxicoses, but incorporate occult features of both
of these mechanisms resulting in abnormal biochemical
findings associated with specific granuloma tissue
lesions. All of the biochemical findings in
gout/hyperuricemia are explainable by fungal
production of preformed urates/urate crystals,
oxalate, glutamate, glycosaminoglycan, glycoprotein,
and hormones. Mycotoxins cause hyperuricemia and
hyperlipidemia. The gouty tophaceous lesion is a
granuloma of the delayed hypersensitivity type and is
identical to fungal granulomas. Asteroid bodies,
characteristic of fungal lesions, are found in the
giant cells in both avian and human gouty tophi.
Asteroids are fungal cells coated with fungal
antigen+host antibody. Spherules and branching
filaments present in tophi have been misidentified as
urates on silver stain which also stains fungal forms
the same identical color. Periodic acid Schiff stain
has demonstrated faint-staining fungal spherules in
gouty lesions. The clinical course of an acute attack
of gout is that of a fungal infection with prodrome,
all the usual signs of infection, ascending
lymphangitis, fever, chills, increase in sedimentation
rate, and desquamation of the overlying skin. Gout
responds to the same mode of action as colchincin.
These clues led to the observation that all drugs and
dietary factors improving gout/hyperuricemia possess
antifungal and/or antimycotoxin activity. The fungal
etiology of gout/hyperuricemia provides a rational
basis for preventive measures and correct therapy.

Citations to the Medical Literature

2006-12-24 15:41:00

=== message truncated ===
For Vitamin D and Gout:
: Yen TH et al. Severe hypercalcaemia with no...[PMID:
11096153]
2: Takahashi S et al. Decreased serum
concentration...[PMID: 9598031]
3: Takahashi S et al. Decreased serum
concentration...[PMID: 9500573]
4: Joshi VR et al. Drug induced rheumatic
disord...[PMID: 7868494]
5: Yuan JY et al. Regulation of 1 alpha,
25-dih...[PMID: 1327876]
6: Hayes ME et al. Synthesis of the active
metab...[PMID: 2802793]
7: Woo KT et al. Renal tubular acidosis....[PMID:
3707033]
8: Jacobs RP. Drug-induced rheumatic diseas...[PMID:
6331980]
9: Ritz E et al. [Tubular functional
disorders...[PMID: 32461]
10: Wells C. Prehistoric and historical ch...[PMID:
769083]
11: Hart FD. Drug-induced arthritis....[PMID: 4452289]
12: Twrdy E. [Diagnosis and therapy of the...[PMID:
4787608]
13: Shopfner CE et al. Growth remodelling of long
bo...[PMID: 4718291]
14: Hunt RD et al. A comparison of the toxicity
...[PMID: 4340673]
15: Hubertus H et al. [Tertiary renal
hyperparathyr...[PMID: 5045743]
16: Hamada G et al. Orthopaedics and orthopaedic
...[PMID: 4566947]
17: Mardomingo Varela P et al. [Chronic feminine gout
and po...[PMID: 5800553]
18: Schellhorn W. ["Calcium gout" with
nephroca...[PMID: 4298777]
19: Moens C et al. Hypocalciuric effect of
benzo...[PMID: 5957873]
20: Magens U. [Casuistic contribution to th...[PMID:
5869791]
....................
For molybdenum and gout:
1: Johnson S. Effect of gradual accumulatio...[PMID:
10616042]
2: Tsitlanadze VG et al. [Incidence and various risk
f...[PMID: 2954251]
3: Jezewska MM. [Mechanism of action and role...[PMID:
4849147]
.................
For nitrite and gout:
: Uesugi M et al. Inflammatory properties of
Ig...[PMID: 11086095]
2: Williams B. Letter: Gout....[PMID: 1160697]
..............
For animal bites and gout:
: Tattersall RS, Bourne JT.
Systemic vasculitis following an unreported rat bite.
Ann Rheum Dis. 2003 Jul;62(7):605-6. No abstract
available.
PMID: 12810419 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2: Shapero C, Fox IM.
Pasteurella multocida and gout in the first
metatarsophalangeal joint.
J Am Podiatr Med Assoc. 1999 Jun;89(6):318-20. No
abstract available.
PMID: 10384759 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
3: Louis DS, Jebson PJ.
Mimickers of hand infections.
Hand Clin. 1998 Nov;14(4):519-29, vii. Review.
PMID: 9884891 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
4: Matfin G, Luchsinger A, Martinez J, Adelman HM.
An inflamed elbow after an insect sting.
Hosp Pract (Off Ed). 1998 Jun 15;33(6):41-2, 44.
PMID: 9636348 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
5: Butt TS, Khan A, Ahmad A, Khan MA, Parke A, Hill
DR.
Pasteurella multocida infectious arthritis with acute
gout after a cat bite.
J Rheumatol. 1997 Aug;24(8):1649-52. Review.
PMID: 9263167 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
6: Kann SE, Jacquemin J, Stern PJ.
Simulators of hand infections.
Instr Course Lect. 1997;46:69-82. Review. No abstract
available.
PMID: 9143953 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
7: Seymour WG.
Observations and speculations.
S Afr Med J. 1979 Nov 10;56(20):808-10.
PMID: 505222 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
..................
For lead and uric acid excretion:
Lin, JL Environmental lead exposure Amer Jnl Medicine
2002 113:563-568
Shadick NA, Effect of low level lead exposure on
hyperuricemia and gout J. Rheumatology 27(7):1708
(2000).
For composition of synovial fluid in a variety of
human joints:
Geigy, Scientific Tables. Volumes 1-6.
..................
Now, if AFTER you have done some minimal research on
the subjects indicated, you wish to post some serious
comments, feel free to do so. Some of these articles
are of questionable utility and some of the
relationships may be unproven. Certainly the
mycological content of bottom fermented beverages as
influencing gout attacks is speculative, but it is
indeed contained in the scientific literature and is
biologically plausible.

Dietary influences on gout

2006-12-24 05:59:36

[snip]
i think i have mailed to the list before about how
occasionally when i have had twinges and have gone out
drinking vodka, the pain has disappeared. i think you
must have all thought I was mad or something, but it
did happen!!!! maybe it flushed my system out a bit??
although having said that, i dont want anyone to go
and drink vodka as a gout cure :)
d

meeting sexy black singles

2006-12-24 04:17:57

I always see some guests registered many times but they still can`t
find their match. We may recommend someone to him as he wants.Through
this way he may become a member. This method also accommodate those
guests who leave message on the "message board" and so on.

gout attack from coffee

2006-12-23 13:02:51

To: Gout group

I just had a medium grade attack today in the middle of my left foot. I ate badly this weekend with a burger and Italian beef sandwich on Friday. However, I do believe it was the coffee that triggered the attack today. Yesterday, I drank coffee from the Coffee Bean store which is usually a little bit stronger than my usual coffee I drink during the week. I have narrowed it down that when I drink a stronger coffee at the Coffee Bean or Starbucks, this triggers the attack. However, during the week I do not get any attacks from my regular coffee. I am trying to limit my intake of coffee but its very difficult since I kind of addicted to it. Does any have this problem with the strength of the coffee?

John I

Synovial fluid

2006-12-23 12:39:23

Re: Synovial Fluid.
There is no defined composition of normal synovial fluid.
There is information on synovial fluid from inflammed joints and from
degenerative joints, but nothing on 'normal' joints.
Most data available is based on the knee but there is absolutely
nothing to indicate that data for the knee would necessarily be
applicable to any other synovial fluid such as in the great toe.
In the knee joint's synovial fluid, it appears that uric acid levels
are roughly equivalent to uric acid levels in the serum, but there is
no data as to whether this holds true for the synovial fluid of other
joints.

Gout; pathogens; nitrites.

2006-12-23 07:46:19

No offense Rick, but you aren't exactly follwing up
your statement with any evidence either.
Now if we have any subscribers on this list from New
South Wales, Australia perhaps they can view the
supposedly lengthy files of anecdotal reports in Dover
Heights clinic, NSW wherein people who were on
elimination diets for other reasons reported a return
of their gout whenever they re-introduced sodium
nitrites into their diet.
You are perfectly free to do such a foolish thing for
such a foolish reason if you really want to.
High uric acid levels are quite common, but only some
people with high uric acid levels get gout. Several
pathogens have been implicated in gout, but most often
a cat-borne pathogen is found in the synovial fluid of
a gouty toe if any attempts are made to culture it
even though very few doctors ever make such attempts.
It seems about four years of both high uric acid
levels and presence of the pathogen would be required
for the first gout attack. Or should I say attack of
"Meatabolic Rheumatism".

Booze and gout, etc.

2006-12-23 04:19:10

Booze doesn't contain purines and that's not why folks with gout should never drink alcohol -- that's a mistaken impression. Booze inhibits the elimination of uric acid, which is why it is poison to the gout sufferer.

Secondly, the only meats that contain sodium notrite are processed luncheon meats, e.g., bologna, salami, ham, bacon, etc. There would appear to be no connection between sodium nitrites and purines, so far as I know. Somebody know about a connection I am not aware of? It is the purines in the meat products themselves that are the culprits, not sodium nitrite,

Negevoli

Dietary influences on gout

2006-12-22 20:01:46

There are some indications that its not merely the
purine content in beef or pork but the manner in which
it is prepared. The use of sodium nitrite in
preserving such meats is what will provoke a gout
attack.
booze? Well, its not just the alcohol, we all know
there are no purines in vodka. Its more likely the
trace contaminants in beer and wine from various
microbial products.

New file uploaded to gout

2006-12-22 12:36:38

Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gout
group.
File : /Click here to learn more about the power of GHR!
Uploaded by : dujorezedo7288 <dujorezedo7288@...
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Micro-Climate of the great toe?

2006-12-22 05:34:52

In what ways does the microclimate of the great toe
differ from other areas of the body? Temperature? pH?
Oxygen saturation?
In what way does synovial fluid of the great toe
differ from synovial fluid found in more proximal
joints?

Anyone near a Medical Library ????

2006-12-22 02:36:23

Does anyone have access to a reasonably well equipped
medical library that would have a 1975 issue of the
Medical Journal of Australia in it?
This is only a one page letter, but it deals with
sodium nitrite as inducing gout and I would like to
find out more about it.
Med J Aust. 1975 Mar 15;1(11):368.
Letter: Gout.
Williams B.
Alcoholic Beverages/adverse effects*
Gout/chemically induced*
Human
Nitrates/adverse effects*
Nitrites/adverse effects*
Substances:
Nitrates
Nitrites

Gout that is not in the joint

2006-12-21 22:28:48

Hi ,
I was diagnosed with gout a few years ago and The first attck was in
my big toe ( this is the only attack in the big toe I have ever
had ) I get attacjs about 3 - 4 times a year on the left hand side
of my foot ( it appears that this areas has no joints in it ) the
last time I went to my doctor ( who I do not go to any more ) he did
not seem to worried that the symtoms were in the left side of my
foot . Since I am in the middle of an attck right now I have started
doing some more research on the subject and all of the information
seems to say that Gout affects joints . I am now worried that what I
have in the affected area is not gout and that perhaps I should get
either a second opinion or see a podiatrist .
Does any body else experience gout attcks in this area?
Thanks

Foot Problems question

2006-12-21 07:41:42

I have been diagnosed with gout for a couple of years now. I am 53
years old, 6'2" and weigh 225. The diagnosis was originally a
result of the traditional pain in the beg toe. I guess since the
allopurinol keeps it in check, I kind of convince myself that I only
have "mild gout". I also take 100mg of Celebrex daily for arthritis
symptoms mostly in my hands and fingers. I used to be quite
athletic until about 3 or 4 years ago (having run road races and
marathons), and recently have begun to try to run again. I have
experienced the following:
The ball of one of my feet got very painful and felt as if it were
on fire. I had to stop running altogether until this symptom
subsided. An archpad in my orthodic shoe insert has helped a little
bit.
In the mornings and after sitting for long periods of time, the
bottoms (both ball and heel) of my feet feel extremely painful when
I get up (but normalize during the day if I walk a bit).
My question to you who are most knowledgeable in this area is:
My big toe isn't bothering me, but can I attribute the above
symptoms to gout or is this a result of arthitis or both? Also,
what are some different drugs to consider besides the Allopurinol
and Celebrex to help me be able to run more pain free? I would like
to run some suggestions by my Doctor to see what he thinks since
this is bothering me so much.

Uric Acid: dietary contribution

2006-12-21 03:55:44

Yes, I imagine that the 15%/85% might well be
approximations.
I was concerned mainly from the viewpoint of my
wanting to go on Allopurinol. It is not a drug to be
taken lightly, but some studies show that going off
NSAIDs entirely and taking a course of Allopurinol has
totally ended all gout attacks in patients that
previously had up to three attacks a year. (Yes, study
had relativelyfew participants).
I was mainly concerned with determining my chances of
getting another attack prior to taking the
chemotherapy agent, Allopurinol.
I did go on a low carbohydrate, high protein/fat diet
to lose thirty pound during which I consumed such high
purine items as: liver pate, sausages, turkey.
Combined with the cell turnover from mobilizing stored
fat, my high purine diet may have contributed to this
initial attack of gout which is still lingering.
IF I do not repeat the poor dietary selection and the
weight loss program, I might be able to avoid future
attacks. This ofcourse would make Allopurinol a very
poor choice to elect at this point in time.
It seems that if this "ten to fifteen" percent dietary
is a reasonable estimate, that my dietary selections
might have been a "tipping point" for the attack even
though the weight loss was six months before symptom
onset.

Weight loss, carbohydrate rebound?

2006-12-21 03:21:24

I do not remember if I had any sort of carbohydrate
rebound or not.
This would be true only if carbohydrates had an effect
on purine excretion. I don't think any has been proven
yet.
I have a marked inability to sense 'thirst' or to
react to a sense of thirst.
I am most definitely in the USA. Most definitely
dealing with a doctor who is hesitant to prescribe ANY
medication until another attack is suffered and
hesitant to prescribe ANY medication in view of his
inability to successfully aspirate any synovial fluid.
He is most particularly hestitant to prescribe
Allopurinol.
Yes, perhaps so. Though I have always been a poor
responder to a sense of thirst.
But the diet involved sausage and liverwurst and these
are high purine foods, so it could well be a
combination of purine intake and failure to 'wash out'
with high water intake. Though I am most curious as to
how there could have been such a long time between the
weight loss/ dietary purine increase and the onset of
symptoms of gout.

Uric Acid: dietary contribution ?

2006-12-20 22:30:21

I've been informed that diet contributes 15 percent of
the uric acid and that basic metabolic processes
contribute 85 percent.
Can anyone provide a source that confirms this.

May be of interest

2006-12-20 16:01:42

Somebody awhile back wanted to know the actual purine content of foodstuff (not High,Medium or Low) This may perchance help

The Web site is http://www.bawarchi.com/health/gout2.html#gout-7

Regards to all of you...........BB

Bawarchi Health and Nutrition

Gout - The Disease And Diet (Part II)

By Mumtaz Khalid Ismail

More Links

Management of gout

Dietary management

Allowed-Low purine content foods

Restricted - Fair purine content foods

Avoided - High purine content foods

Sample Menu for gout patients

A person suffering from gout can lead a normal life provided he is prompt in taking medical aid and a slight change in life style including diet.

Management of gout
All gouty patients must be assessed about eating and drinking habits that are linked with high uric acid. The treatment of gout may be possible by diminishing the synthesis of uric acid in the body or by increasing the excretion. A number of drugs are effective in the treatment of gout and diet is considered to be an adjunct to drug therapy. Controlling body weight through a well-planned programme of exercise and diet can also help to relieve gout. Fasting can also precipitate an attack of gout. In traditional medicine cherries, leeks and celery are used to lower blood levels of uric acid.

Dietary management
Low purine content and moderate fat is recommended for gouts. Food rich in nucleic acids and nucleoprotein e.g. meat, fish, organ meats should be avoided. Liberal amounts of fluid intake are advisable.

Calories and carbohydrate
Calories have to be restricted for obese persons to maintain an ideal body weight. The body weight should be maintained to normal to prevent further damage of the weight bearing joints due to over weight. Rapid weight loss either by starvation, by extremely low calorie diets or by excessive exercise can precipitate an attack of gout. A gradual weight loss with moderate exercise will be preferable for the patients who are suffering from gout. During an attack of gout the main source of calories should be from carbohydrates for its protein sparing effect which reduces the endogenous protein break down.

Proteins
The protein intake should be between 50-60gms per day for an adult and this can be supplied from cereals, milk, egg and vegetables. High purine containing food such as fish, meat, liver, kidney should be avoided. It is no great hard ship to avoid these foods for a non vegetarian compare to the hardship they have to undergo during illness.

Fat Consumption
Moderate amount of fat intake is permitted. High fat consumption should be restricted since fat tends to decrease uric acid excretion in urine.

Fluids and beverages
Liberal intake of fluid at least 2 to 3 litres per day is advised as it helps to increase the volume of urine excreted. Even though tea, coffee and cocoa contain methyl purine the body do not convert this type of purine into uric acid. About 2-3 cups of tea or coffee or cocoa are permitted in a day. All alcoholic drinks are best to be forbidden.

Allowed-Low purine content foods
(below 50mg purine per 100 gms of edible portion)
1. Milk and milk products
2. Eggs
3. Cereals
4. Vegetables except those listed below
5. Fruits
6. Sugar and sweets ( must be restricted if the person is obese)
7. Fats and oils ( 1-2 tbsp. per day)
8. Nuts

Restricted - Fair purine content foods
(50 - 500 mg purine per 100 gms of edible portion )
1. Pulses 1 cup per day but exclude during an acute attack
2. Vegetables like peas, beans, spinach, apple, mushrooms and cauliflower

Avoided - High purine content foods
( 500 - 1000 mg purine per 100 gms of edible portion)
1. Meat
2. Fish especially white bait, sardines, and herring.
3. Liver
4. Kidney
5. Heart
6. Pancreas
7. Sweet bread
8. Crab
9. Brain

Sample Menu for gout patients

Diet plan A (Vegetarian) Diet plan B (Non vegetarian)
Early Morning Tea / Coffee - 1 cup Tea / Coffee - 1 cup
Break fast Cornflakes - 1/2 cup
Skim milk - 1 cup Broken wheat ( dhalia) - 1/2 cup
Skim milk - 1 cup
Mid morning Fresh fruits or fresh fruit juice Fresh fruits or fresh fruit juice
Lunch Rice -1/2 cup
Chapathi - 2 nos
Thin Dhal - 1/2 cup
Turiya sabji - 1 cup
curd- 1 cup ,salad Chapathi - 3 nos
Egg curry - 1 no
cabbage sabji - 1 cup
curd- 1/2 cup
salad
Mid evening Tea / coffee - 1 cup Tea / coffee - 1 cup
Dinner Tomato soup - 1 bowl
roti - 2
Thin Dhal - 1/2 cup
Ladies finger sabji - 1 cup
milk pudding Carrot soup - 1 bowl
Veg pulao with boiled one egg
Curd raita 1/2 cup
Fruit salad

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Tell us what you think about this article

I was in my 20's and my first attack was in my ankle also

2006-12-20 07:04:39

I was in my 20's and extremely over weight (100lbs over) when I got
my first gout attack. I got my first attack on my left ankle and
until recently I get it on my left big toe. I can actually get an
attack anywhere on my left foot, from the bottom of my left foot to
either side of my ankle and the big toe. Some times an attack may
start at the ankle and then work itself around to the bottom then to
the big toe. In other words on Monday it may start at the ankle then
on Wednesday it will travel to the bottom and by Saturday to the big
toe. I guess gout is unpredictable and anything is possible.

Insulin and gout

2006-12-19 20:59:23

When you look at the factors that are associated with gout and
compare them to the factors that are associated with diabetes there
is too much overlap to be coincidence. I am writing about this
coincidence of risk factors from pure intuition here but the medical
community is also aware of the overlap. They often comment about it
informally in conversation as well as more formally in writing.
I want to focus on the recent post by "tony8167" who lost 14 pounds
in two weeks on the Atkins diet. From many of the discussions we have
had on here we can conclude that if Tony is indeed a gout sufferer,
and his overall uric acid level is above what his body is able to
excrete, we would conclude that losing that much weight that fast, as
fat mind you, will surely induce a gout attack if you are prone to
gout. With uric acid being stored in the fat tissues and that tissue
beind depleted by 14 pounds, that will leave a lot of uric acid that
his body has to remove. If you think about it, he may not even be a
real gout sufferer long term and he simply overloaded his excretion
capability while on the "fat burn".
This is a critical point we need to look at and understand. I finally
got Dr. Atkins new book, sort of new, at least some of the statistics
are new. I read his first edition about 10 years ago. When it first
came out I was maybe 2 pounds over weight, in great shape and figured
that I didn't need to pay attention to it. However, there are some
very important points covered in his book that I believe affect all
of us and I am ready to conclude, in my own mind, that the root cause
of my gout, is that I live in a "glycogen excess" state, all the
times. My body never has depleted glycogen levels, unless I am losing
weight, and in my normal operation mode, I keep my glycogen level,
that is my blood sugar level, at or over the max level it can or
should be. I am definitely not diabetic yet but I am doing about
everything I can to move myself into being a diabetic and it is a
really, really stupid thing to be doing.
I suspect that many of you are doing the same thing. Each and every
day, when your blood suger gets even slightly low, you put a
carbohydrate in your mouth and voila, you fix the hunger symptom
before it gets too bad. The older I get the worse this seems to get
and although I feel I am living in a perpetual state of hunger, I
still manage to gain weight, albeit slowly, month after month and
year after year. I seem to be gaining about 2 pounds a year and
although that may not seem like much, after 10 years now, the 20
pounds are here and it is ever so hard to get motivated to get rid of
it.
Moreover, remember that the #1 risk factor associated with gout is
too much weight. Clearly there are gout sufferers who are skinny as a
rail, my grand father was skinny and he was wracked with gout pain
almost all the time. However, most of us are not skinny and we know
that if we could lose the weight, we would reduce the rate of, and
severity of, our gout attacks.
It will take a while to get this all organized so that it is easy to
understand but I'll start with a simple fact that Atkins covers in
his first few chapters.
When you have excess glycogen, your body makes insulin to get rid of
the glycogen and from that glycogen the body makes as much energy as
you need to live on and then it turns the rest into fat. The risk
factors associated with this kind of behavior, with keeping a high
blood sugar level all the time, are astonishing and it can be
predicted-with absolute certainty by the way-that it will lead us to
an early grave. High blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes,
arterial schlerosis and all the other problems associated with being
over weight-much higher cancer risk, etc., etc., etc..
If there is not enough blood sugar in your system to live on, that
is, if there is not enough blood sugar there to generate the energy
it takes to go through the day, your body turns to the fat and
protein in your body for energy. If you have excess protein from your
diet it will leave your mscles alone, and then it will then turn to
your stored fat and convert your stored fat into energy. The energy
cycle from "FAT BURNING" does not involve insulin and this is what I
want to focus on. As I said in the beginning of this post, the
overlap with diabetic factors is just too great for me to believe
that insulin is not the main culprit in triggering my gout.
For those of you that need a mechanism, or a proof of details, I
ain't gonna even try but my belief is that I can go on a controlled
atkins diet-yes higher protein intake, much higher in fact, and I
believe I will not increase my gout probability unless I do it too
quickly.
In simple terms, I am going to target 1 pound a week, not 7 pounds a
week, and I will drink lots of water, and I plan to reduce my
carbohydrate level to where I am getting most of my energy to live
on, from either the fat I eat or from the fat I already have stored.
I'll stay on allopurinol, watch my BP and go back to my exercize
routine.
As Atkins says, it is very hard to live when you are hungry all the
time and high carbohydrate intake but insufficient calories makes you
hungry and keeps you hungry...
Oh yes, one thing I didn't mention but Atkins does cover, and I have
known it since graduate school and my biochemistry work in the late
60's. When you eat one spoon full of sugar, that sugar will trigger
insulin release and the insulin will work on reducing your blood
sugar. It will take about an hour to deplete your system of that one
spoon full of sugar. The problem is that when the blood sugar level
reaches normal, there is still insulin in the system and that insulin
gets eaten up by completely depleting your system of blood sugar.
The low blood sugar level sets off bells in your brain that say to
you-FEED ME- it says-FEED ME- FEED ME-FEED ME- and, if it fails to
get food it will then start to shut the system down and you will
probably take a nap.
After another hour, your system will have been able to restore the
blood sugar level by burning some fat, if it has to, and your hunger
will go away.
My proposal, based on nothing other than intuition, is that the
constant cycling of my glycogen-insulin system-causes my gout.
Clearly this is not the case for all people with gout,but I am smack
in the middle of this "too much sugar" thing and my gout attacks seem
to correlate well with having been in that cycle too long.

Gout need help....

2006-12-19 13:32:31

Hello all new here, I am a 36 yr old male who has been dealing with
painful gout episodes since my early twenties, even thought I did not
know that was what I was suffering from...Last year I had a bout in
my right ankle that lasted several months, it has always been in my
ankle until this most recent time....About a week ago, my right knee
began to get sore, then wham it hit..My knee is swollen, very sore
and I can't bend it....I have been taking aleve like candy, it seems
to help sometime....I was on the atkins diet and lost 14 lbs in 2
weeks, ate lots of meat and protein, man if I had known it was going
to do this I would have kept the weight on.....I need advise, the
pain has subsided, I drink about a gallon and a half of water a day
to help was the acid out of my system...I have a large pocket of
fluid above my knee, pretty firm has anyone had this kind of reaction
before? Any help would be appreciated...Things to eat, drink, or
ideas for me...I would be forever grateful.....Tony

sunglasses and gout

2006-12-19 11:39:26

I am baffled why anyone would choose not to wear sunglasses in the sun, but to each his/her own. But unless I am mistaken, exposure to sun may cause cataracts. Am I wrong about that? So why not do the prudent and sensible thing and wear sunglasses. Scheese!

Negevoli

Glucosamine and arthritis

2006-12-19 05:35:04

I have been diagnosed with osteo-arthritis in both knees, worse in left knee. During the past year or so, I took "ordinary" doses of glucosamine chondroitin (one w/MSM) with no change in arthritis symptoms -- no improvement. So I stopped taking it and even have some left over that I'll probably wind up throwing out.

Then, after a severe bout of gout in my right knee nine months ago, my arthritis seemed more pronounced -- more stiffness and pain and restriction of movement/limberness. It could be that I just became more aware of the stiffness and pain after the horrific gout attack that essentially crippled me. At any rate, I had seen all these ads for "Osteo Bi-Flex" and decided I'd give the glucosamine another chance.

I got the more expensive formula of "Triple Strength." Almost immediately, my knees felt better, taking two per day. Most of the time they feel "back to normal" and when I walk, the knees, knee caps feel the way they used to before I developed the arthritis, primarily no stiffness and pain. (I have had two bad falls; the last one, in Dec. 1998, landed me on concrete on both knees from the top of my front porch; the right kneecap is still somewhat numb from that fall. I attribute the arthritis to these events.)

This good effect from Bi-Flex has been the case for over a month. I have had a brief episode during that time of a little of the old stiffness and pain -- what I chalked up to the proverbial "bad days" -- but even at that, it was a lot less painful than before Osteo Bi-Flex.

Now, the caveat. I also have back pain and when it got worse I went to the dr. and she told me to take Aleve. I did and swore by it at first because it helped alleviate the back pain so much. But after a few months, the pain started coming back and even though I still usually take two Aleve tablets a day, it's less effective than it was at first. So I'm afraid that this might be a pattern that repeats itself with everything.

Nevertheless, I will have to replenish my supply of Osteo Bi-Flex in the next few days and plan to buy the highest formula -- quadruple strength --which is about $80-$90. I will continue taking Bi-Flex until it stops be effective. I can't praise enough the effect it has had so far on my arthritic knees. I think there must be a difference in the formula or ingredients or processing of Bi-Flex compared with the previous brands I tried. All I know is Osteo Bi-Flex worked whern the other brands did not.

Negevoli

Macular degeneration; XO ; SOD

2006-12-18 21:47:32

Ofcourse. allopurinol increases the free radicals generated in the
xanthine oxidase pathway and these unquenched free radicals impair
the eye since that is where most vitamin c and vitamin E would be
utilized anyway but is depleted.
Its the same with hypertension: its the XO pathway that generates the
free radicals that cause the vascular damage. And Allopurinol
increases this.
Now there are alot of conditions that people with gout can also have,
psoriasis is more common in non-oriental gout sufferers; dandruff
seems common too. These are fairly weak associations though. And
undoubtedly not causally related at all.
One of those weekly trays with each day's container being separately
removable to take with you sure helps.

role of glucosimine

2006-12-18 14:51:18

Would appreciate hearing thoughts on effectiveness of taking glucosimine for
gout and general arthritis.
Seems like there's a lot of hype about glucosimine, and not much reputable
info. Some doctors will tell you it might be helpful. None say it will
hurt or harm you. Others don't seem to believe in it.
I take it the glucosimine is supposed to help strengthen joints, thereby
helping them heal quicker and not suffer as much harm as a result of gout
attacks.
I'd like to hear experiences of the gout group who use glucosimine, and how
helpful they feel it is.

digestive enzymes: nutritional supplements

2006-12-18 14:23:56

I'm not sure. I'd like to hear from others on this.
I'm new here and trying to get information.
I would certainly think that Vitamin D seems to play a
role in gout, though its unclear what role. You might
recall the exchanges about 'seasonality' with gout
being more prevalent in Springtime which ofcourse
suggests a role for sunshine. There are articles about
vitamin D depletion in gout as well as hypervitamin D
states.
Certainly since people with gout seem to have macular
degeneration problems, anything that addresses that
such as Vitamin E would probably be beneficial.
Gymnema Slyvestre is an herb that has been described
as long being used in the treatment of gout but what
success, if any, such herbabl treatments have had is
unknown.
If my prior messages on heavy metals, particularly
iron and molybdenum have started you thinking along
these lines, you might consider anything that would
decrease: iron, molybdenum, cadmium and arsenic.

digestive enzymes

2006-12-18 04:41:15

Donbrad-
Thanks for acknowledging my post- what I meant was, if there
are any specific digesive enzymes from food or supplements that may
be beneficial to incorporate into daily nutrition for gout. I'm
interested in knowing which are benefical and why. If you have any
insight on this I'd appreciate it - Thanks Michele

purine content of foods ?

2006-12-17 18:44:54

Does anyone have a link to QUANTITATIVE data on the
purine content of foods?
Please do NOT respond if all you have is information
in qualitative terms such as 'high' 'medium' or 'low'.

Enzymes ??

2006-12-17 13:17:05

"...From: "mish1232242" <mish1232242@...
I'm uncertain of what is meant by 'digestive enzymes
for gout'.
If you are referring to the enzymes that are involved
in purine metabolism, there are four main pathways and
several dozen enzymes involved.

nutrition advise

2006-12-17 05:41:17

I was wondering if nayone with experience could clarify the
beneficial digestive enzymes for gout. Thanks Michele

Prescription drugs from Mexico.

2006-12-17 03:11:40

I have no desire to obtain any drugs from Mexico. It is well known
that the packaging will be perfect. I am concerned with the contents
of the pills, not the counterfeiting of packaging materials and
corporate logos. The chances are far too high for adulterated
materials or a total absence of the intended drug.

biologically plausible

2006-12-16 21:30:48

Look, I can speculate with anyone on what might be the
cause of gout but, if you have gout, you should be
taking allopurinol if your body can tolerate it.
End the gout and your interest in esoteric root
causes will wane dramatically.
Perhaps. However, due to certain circumstances, the
quacks I am forced to deal with are loathe to order
tests or issue any Rx other than for HCTZ, which
increases my risk of gout attacks.
I can however take Vitamin D without a prescription, I
can also donate blood without a prescription so as to
lower my iron and molbdenum levels since iron and
molbdenum play a role in several of the enzymes
involved in purine metabolism. I can also eat lots of
yoghurt or something so as to get lots of calcium; I
do not need a prescription to obtain youghurt.
I would love an Rx for allopurinol, but I doubt I
could get one at gunpoint!

biologically plausible

2006-12-16 17:45:43

Interesting... are there no further info on this or
some on-going research?
Most of the research on molybdenum is in the
veterinary journals dealing with sheep and goats
although the Journal of Clinical Toxicology has some
stuff on molybdenum and gout in humans. See the
published errata too, however.

Seasonality

2006-12-16 17:03:53

I think there are some in this list who live
downunder.
Let's hear from them.
Kigo
I would prefer a more scholarly source, but if
anecdotal is all we can get, fine! The only studies
of seasonality of gout all dealt with the 'right' side
of the equator.

iron

2006-12-16 00:19:30

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 04:44:10 -0000
From: "Walter Sidney Matthews"
<companion13@...
Subject: Re: biologically plausible.
"The crystals that precipitate
in gout are sodium-urate-iron crystals. "
???????????????????????????????????????????
The crystals that form in gout are chemically pure
monosodium urate.
There is no iron within the crystal structure
Quite possibly. Can you obtain a copy of Medical
Hypotheses 53(5)407-412 (1999) Effect of gradual
accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow
depletion of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose
ingestion and phlebotomy in gout.
As to the role of iron in females. Prior to menopause
females lose iron; after menopause they don't. Prior
to menopause they don't get gout; after menopause they
can get gout. Perhaps 'long hair' is responsible, I
think iron levels are more likely, however.

Times and places

2006-12-16 00:02:39

I live 'downunder' in Melbourne Australia. My first severe attack was
in February or March, end of Summer - early Autumn. It was quite
a hot day as I remember, about 30 degrees celsius.
Marg

Great reply Arnold

2006-12-15 16:59:01

Great reply...
And if you did get a mutation from your culdhidine, you are not
likely to see it till your grand kids have kids.....

BAD! colchicine experience(mine)..

2006-12-15 13:57:58

(Walter..you'll probablly know something about this..)
That colchicine interferes..TO PUT IT MILDY..mutates..try this
one on.
I had been on allopurinol and colchicine for just over a year..2
or 3 pills a day..or as little as possible..try 2..go up to 3 if
neccessary..use 5 in a day..but not for more than 3 days..then off
for a few days..back to the usual..I was given LONG 'scripts for
colchicne..typically 100 days..300 tablets.AND was THOROUGHLY
LECTURED on it's use.These were the instructions from the
rheumatologist..
One day..I felt the old gout..not bad..I was taking 2 colchicine
a day..I let this attack ride..wasn't that bad..BUT it got worse..not
wanting to take any more of this dangerous drug than I absolutely had
to..I let this attack go on..well..it got to the point where I was
back to 3 pills a day..and the attack was getting worse..my feet got
sorer and sorer..and I found myself BACK in bed..more and
more..pretty soon I had to use the 3 colchince and 3 indomethicine..I
was allowed to do this too..
This went on and on.ONLY getting worse for like 3 months..I could
be on my feet..for like..6..then 5..then before I knew it..2 or 3 hrs
a day..
A couple months of this..being on allopurinol..and on
maintenance colchicine..AND back on indomethicine..I had had a
previous GOOD! year..allopurinol,maintenance colchicine..all was
well..NOW I was almost back to where I was..crippled..BUT on
allopurinol and colchicine and indomethicine..
Ok it was definitely time to get help..a few months of this was
enough..before I could blink I started to get a loss of feeling in my
fingers..hands going to sleep..I had to SHAKE them to wake them up..a
lot..alrighty then something was wrong..very wrong..
Coincidentally..one day..I forgot to take the colchicine..and did
not have any with me..I was out..couldn't get back for 6/7 hrs..I was
FREAKING OUT..PARANOID..just imagining the horrible attack that would
come..I got back home and got that colchicine into my FAST!..mental
relief..about an hour later..BACK to the pain in my feet..??
This was last September..I had ended up being basically off my
feet for 23 hrs a day..
After a few days of this ..it suddennly dawned on me..my feet
were fine..(when I got up in the morning)UNTIL an hour after I took
the evil colchicine..THEN I was back to the pain..and I tried this
over and over and over.
SOooo I figured I would take it right before bed..hey this was
cool..I was back walking!..BUT about an hour after taking it..and
falling asleep.I'ld wake up with pains in my feet..
I remember my first day without it..and no kidding..EVERY single
time I took it..BACK to the pain..so finally I quit.AND stayed
away..from colchicine..and all pain relief..and my feet were
PURRFECT! for 4 months..(still on the allopurinol)(actually it's now
been a year with no painkillers)
When I saw the rhuematologist again..and told him..he said..YOU
WERE OVERDOSING!..this brought a pretty nasty quick reply from me..I
said.."I had gout attacks..and YOU told me to do this..SO I did
it"..he said those were NOT gout attacks..and told me to never take
colchicine again.Idno..they sure felt like gout attacks to me..
Next came WEIRD..terrible feelings in my feet..almost as bad as
gout..a feeling like there was stuff..activity..moving around in my
feet..like a mobile itch..that could not be scratched.This was so bad
this needed a "see the expert NOW"..NOW..he said that this was
excessive white blood cell activity..that was back trying
to "normalize/fix " things..nerve ends,abrasions/irritations from
crystals...AND.brought on by too much colchicine..
This was the kind of feeling that could seriously make one crazy..
It only lasted a few weeks..
I'dno about this colchicine..it was the only thing that worked
for me..and I was ever so grateful..then it took me almost right back
to where I was..
!

Initiation of Drug treatment?

2006-12-15 05:04:09

I know that drugs are generally not Rx'd during an
acute attack but are instead initiated after an attack
subsides.
However, I wonder if the people on this list would
agree that it is proper to only initiate drug therapy
to lower uric acid levels after the second attack of
gout, but not after the first attack of gout?

biologically plausible.

2006-12-15 02:29:01

Concerning the possible effects of iron and molybdenum
on gout:
I am NOT saying that these are necessarily proven or
even that there exists substantial evidence wherein it
would be sensible to rely on the supposed connection
actually existing.
However, females who menstruate and therefore lose
iron, do not get gout. Females who cease menstruation
are susceptible to gout. The crystals that precipitate
in gout are sodium-urate-iron crystals. This makes the
role of iron biologically plausible, but not proven.
Concerning Molybdenum:
It is extremely hard for a human to acquire too much
of this mineral as it is present in the normal diet in
only minute amounts. However, when sheep or cattle
ingest excessive amounts, they do develop a condition
that bears similarities to gout. It has been suggested
that Mo may inhibit certain enzymes at "high"
concentrations and since people are so rarely tested
for Mo, no one would know that they have a high Mo
level. Mo and S each bind to Cu in the kidneys and
impair kidney function leading to increased uric acid
levels. It seems 'reasonable' to consider Mo levels.
I'm not saying it should be a primary consideration.
Concerning vitamin D:
It is possible that uric acid directly decreases serum
levels of Vitamin D by inhibiting 1 alpha-hydroxylase
action. This is not proven, but again there are
indications and it is biologically plausible. Since a
supplement of Vitamin D would be cheap, have little
risk and would not require an Rx, I thought it would
be a good issue to bring up on this list.

NSAIDS,,,when to DISCONTINUE use?

2006-12-14 18:35:04

When do you DISCONTINUE the use of NSAIDS?
If you discontinue NSAID use after an acute attack
subsides, how would you define this:
.... total cessation of pain
.... end of redness, but continued swelling of joint
.... restoration of ability to walk without
excessively obvious difficulty
.... restoration of ability to wear a tightly-laced
dress shoe and engage in lengthy walks
Does anyone continue the NSAID use for several weeks
since mild pain and impaired mobiity continues but
redness and severe pain does not?

Phlebotomy anyone??

2006-12-14 07:10:07

Does anyone routinely donate blood in order to lower
iron and molybdenum levels so as to lessen the
liklihood of an attack of gout?

Thank You.

2006-12-14 00:03:51

Thank you for posting the material from
the UC-Davis site. As someone who just
experienced his first gout attack, for
which I am still taking Ibuprofen as the
joint pain, although much subsided, has
not ended, I've tried to find information
on this disease and encountered alot of
absolute nonsense aimed at the level of
idiots.

FYI from Negevoli -- trying again

2006-12-13 23:48:23

Gout

March 2000

WHAT IS GOUT?

Gout

Gout is a type of arthritis (inflammation of the joints) that mostly affects men age 40 and older. It is nearly always associated with chronic hyperuricemia, a long-lasting, abnormally high concentration of uric acid in the blood. The process leading to gout begins with the metabolism of purines, nitrogen-containing compounds, that are important for energy. Purines can be divided into two types, endogenous and exogenous. Endogenous purines are synthesized within the nuclei of cells in the human body itself, whereas the exogenous purines are obtained from foods. All mammals, except humans, possess an enzyme called uricase that breaks purines down into a very soluble product called allantoin. Humans, however, lack this enzyme, and the end point of their purine metabolism is uric acid, a useless substance that can build up in tissues in the body if it is not adequately eliminated in urine.
Uric acid is produced in the liver and enters the bloodstream. Most uric acid eventually passes through the kidneys and is excreted in the urine; the rest is disposed of in the intestines, where it is processed and oxidized by bacteria. Normally these processes keep the concentration of uric acid in the blood plasma (the liquid part of the blood) below 6.8 milligrams per deciliter (6.8 mg/dL). Under certain circumstances, however, the body produces too much uric acid or excretes too little. This results in higher levels and increased concentrations of uric acid in the blood, and hyperuricemia develops. At normal body temperature and below, uric acid concentrations increase; as they approach 7 mg/dL, the blood becomes supersaturated, and needlelike crystals of a salt called monosodium urate (MSU) form. In time, as MSU crystals accumulate, they cause inflammation and pain, symptoms typical of gout.

Effects of Hyperuricemia

High levels of uric acid are basically associated with four conditions, which can occur independently but may develop one after the other if gout is untreated: acute gouty arthritis, chronic tophaceous gout, uric acid nephrolithiasis (a form of kidney stone), and, possibly, uric acid nephropathy (kidney disease).
Acute Gouty Arthritis. Acute gouty arthritis is the stage at which the first symptoms of gout appear.
Chronic Tophaceous Gout. After several years, persistent gout can produce tophi, which are solid deposits of MSU crystals that form in the joints and elsewhere in the body (hence the term chronic tophaceous gout). Without anti-hyperuricemia treatment, tophi develop on average about 10 years after the onset of the disease although their first appearance can range from three to 42 years. Bones, cartilage, tendons, soft tissue, and membranes containing synovial fluid (the lubricating fluid surrounding joints) can all harbor tophi. Common locations include the helix of the outer ear (the curved ridge along the edge of the ear), the fingers, hands, forearms, knees, and feet, and the olecranon bursa (a sac at the elbow joint filled with synovial fluid). In some cases, tophi break through the skin and appear as white or yellowish-white, chalky nodules. (They have been described as looking like "crabs eyes.") In rare cases, they can settle in regions around the heart and spine.
Today, drug therapy has reduced the prevalence of chronic tophaceous gout to as little as 3%, although certain groups, such as transplant patients receiving cyclosporine, still face a high risk of developing tophi.
Uric Acid Nephrolithiasis (Kidney Stones). Uric acid nephrolithiasis occurs when kidney stones form from uric acid. Uric acid and other kidney stones are present in 10% to 25% of patients with primary gout, a prevalence more than 1000 times that of the general population. In secondary gout, the reported incidence reaches 42%. Uric acid stones can also form in the absence of gout or hyperuricemia. Not all of the kidney stones in patients with gout are composed of uric acid; some are composed of calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, or those substances combined with uric acid. Kidney stones can be extraordinarily painful and can cause infection and kidney failure if untreated.
Chronic Uric Acid Interstitial Nephropathy. Chronic uric acid interstitial nephropathy occurs when crystals slowly form in the structures and tubes that carry fluid from the kidney. It is reversible and not likely to injure the kidneys. (Sudden overproduction of uric acid, however, can occasionally block the kidneys and cause them to fail. This most often occurs in conjunction with chemotherapy for leukemia or lymphoma and can also occur after heat stress from vigorous exercise, following epileptic seizures, and after corticosteroid therapy for severe allergic reactions.)

WHAT CAUSES GOUT?

Gout is classified as either primary (the most common type) or secondary, depending on the cause of the associated hyperuricemia. In both types of gout, between 70% and 95% of hyperuricemia cases are the result of underexcretion of uric acid, rather than uric acid overproduction.

Primary Gout

More than 99% of primary gout cases are referred to as idiopathic, meaning that the cause of the hyperuricemia cannot be determined. They are most likely due to a combination of hormonal and genetic factors that cause metabolic abnormalities resulting in overproduction of uric acid or reduced excretion of uric acid. The remaining 1% of primary gout cases are traceable to either of two rare inherited enzyme defects that affect purine synthesis in the cells.

Secondary Gout

In secondary gout, hyperuricemia is caused by drug therapy or by medical conditions other than an inborn metabolic disorder that increase uric acid concentration.
Medications. The list of drugs that cause hyperuricemia is long. They include thiazide diuretics (the "water pills" used to control hypertension), pyrazinamide (used to treat tuberculosis), and the immunosuppressive drug cyclosporine (given to transplant recipients to prevent organ rejection). Low doses of aspirin decrease uric acid excretion and increase the chance for hyperuricemia; this is a particular problem for older people with heart disease who would benefit from baby aspirin. High doses have the opposite effect, however.
Kidney Problems. Renal (meaning kidney) insufficiency is the impaired ability of the kidneys to eliminate waste products, including uric acid, which then build up in the blood. It is one of the major risk factors for gout in older people. Hyperuricemia occurs in between 30% and 85% of people who have kidney transplants and who receive immunosuppressive and diuretic drugs.
Other Medical Conditions. A number of diseases, including leukemia, lymphoma, and psoriasis, can cause gout. Over exposure to lead can cause gout.
Alcohol Use. Alcohol use increases uric acid levels in three ways: by providing an additional dietary source of purines (the compounds from which uric acid is formed), by intensifying the body's production of uric acid, and by interfering with the kidneys' ability to excrete uric acid.
Purine-Rich Diet. A purine-rich diet rarely causes hyperuricemia, although it may precipitate an attack in some people with existing gout. [For a list of purine-rich foods, see What Lifestyle Measures Can Help Prevent Gout? below.]

WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF GOUT?

Gout is often divided into four symptomatic stages: asymptomatic hyperuricemia, acute gouty arthritis, intercritical gout, and chronic tophaceous gout. Gout symptoms can be precipitated by stress, infection, joint injury, weight loss, surgery, certain kinds of drug treatment, overindulgence in alcohol or purine-rich foods, or even something as seemingly inconsequential as a long walk that one was not sufficiently physically fit to undertake. They tend to occur more in the spring, with the peak in April. Severe illnesses and drug treatments are probably the most significant triggers; in fact, 20% to 86% of patients with gout experienced a recurrence when they are hospitalized.

Asymptomatic Hyperuricemia

Asymptomatic hyperuricemia, in which MSU slowly builds up, always precedes gout and is considered the first stage of the disorder. It can last, however, for an average of 30 years. Hyperuricemia also does not inevitably lead to gout. In fact, less than 20% of the hyperuricemic population develops the full-blown arthritic disease.

Acute Gouty Arthritis

Acute gouty arthritis is the stage at which the first symptoms of gout appear. Sometimes gout is heralded by brief twinges of pain (petit attacks) in an affected joint, which can precede the actual full-blown condition by several years.
MSU crystals begin to form at normal body temperature when concentrations reach 7 mg/dL. They can form at lower concentrations, however, at lower body temperatures, which occur in areas farther from the heart; this explains why gout tends to favor joints in fingers and toes first. Symptoms usually begin as a sudden, severe, and unexpected arthritic attack affecting a single joint in one of the lower limbs, a condition known as monoarticular gout. The joint of the big toe is the site of about half of all first gout attacks, a specific condition called podagra. The site is often medically referred to as the big toe's metatarsophalangeal (MTP) joint, the point where one of the long five bones of the foot meets the first digit of a toe.
The joints of the foot, ankle, knee, wrist, elbow, and hand are other frequently affected sites. In such cases the condition is known as polyarticular gout. More than one joint is affected in 10% to 20% of first attacks. The pain usually occurs in joints on one side of the body and it is usually, although not always, in the lower extremities. People with polyarticular gout are more likely to have a more gradual onset of pain and a longer delay between attacks. They are also more likely to experience a low-grade fever, loss of appetite, and a general feeling of poor health.
The primary symptom, which usually takes eight to 12 hours to develop, is severe, sometimes crushing pain at and around the joint. In many cases the attack occurs late at night or early in the morning and announces itself by waking the sufferer. Some patients describe it as resembling a dislocated bone and one writer described it as "like walking on my eyeballs." Chills and mild fever may follow. The area can be so tender that walking and even the weight of bed sheets can be unbearable. Swelling may extend beyond the joint, indicating fluid build-up within. The skin over the affected area is often red, shiny, and tense. After a few days it may start to peel. An untreated attack will typically peak 24 to 48 hours after the initial appearance of symptoms, and subside after five to seven days, although it can last only hours to several weeks.

Intercritical Gout

Intercritical gout is the term used to describe the periods between attacks. The first attack is usually followed by a complete remission of symptoms, but in untreated cases most people can expect a recurrence. One study found that 62% of subjects experienced at least one further attack within a year. At the end of two years 78% and after 10 years 93% of patients experienced a recurrence of gout.

Symptoms of Chronic Tophaceous Gout

When gout remains untreated, the intercritical periods typically become shorter and shorter, and the attacks, although sometimes less intense, can last longer. Gout may eventually affect several joints, including those that may have been free of symptoms at the first appearance of the disorder. In rare cases, the shoulders, hips, or spine are affected. Over the long term, about 10 to 20 years, in untreated gout the intercritical periods dwindle until gout becomes a chronic disorder characterized by constant low-grade pain and mild or acute inflammation in several joints. Persistent gout, moreover, can destroy cartilage and bone, causing irreversible joint deformities and loss of motion.
Symptoms of Tophi. Tophi, the solid, knobby MSU crystal deposits that form during this process are generally painless themselves, but they often cause pain and stiffness in an affected joint and can erode cartilage and bone, ultimately destroying the joint. Large tophi under the skin of the hands and feet can give rise to extreme deformities.

HOW SERIOUS IS GOUT?

Left untreated, gout can develop into a painful and disabling chronic disorder. Tophi are capable of growing to the size of handballs and can destroy bone and cartilage in the joints, similar to the process in rheumatoid arthritis. If they lodge in the spine, they can cause serious damage including compression, although this is a very rare event. In extreme cases, joint destruction results in complete disability. But now, after several decades of research into the causes of gout and the development of drugs for controlling hyperuricemia, gout rarely poses a long-term threat to health if properly treated. Still, it remains a source of short-term pain and incapacity for thousands of Americans. Kidney stones occur in between 10% and 40% of gout patients, and can occur at any time after the development of hyperuricemia. Although the stones are usually composed of uric acid, they may also be mixed with other materials. About 25% of patients with chronic hyperuricemia develop
progressive kidney disease, which, in some cases, ends in kidney failure. Many experts believe, however, that chronic hyperuricemia is unlikely to be a common cause of kidney disease, and that, in most cases, the kidney abnormalities come first and cause high concentrations of uric acid. Gout also accompanies and can be exacerbated by other serious conditions that are associated with kidney and heart disease including diabetes, obesity, unhealthy cholesterol levels, insulin resistance, and high blood pressure. Hyperuricemia has also been associated with a higher risk of death from heart and circulatory diseases, although it is unknown whether hyperuricemia is a risk factor independent of the high-risk conditions it often accompanies.

WHAT ARE THE RISK FACTORS FOR GOUT?

Risk factors are attributes or activities associated with a greater-than-normal likelihood of developing a particular disorder. Sometimes a causal connection between the attribute or activity and the disorder can be established, but at other times there is simply a statistical correlation. The risk factors for gout, of which there are several, are identical to those for hyperuricemia.

Prevalence

Gout is one of the most common types of arthritis. In the United States there were an estimated 2.2 million cases of self-reported gout in 1986, and a 1991 publication noted that Americans lost an estimated 37 million working days a year to gout. It is estimated that approximately 15 of every 1,000 American males between 35 and 45 years of age have gout and some experts believe that one in 100 men may be at risk for it. It is very uncommon in less developed countries and in 1952 it was said to be unknown in China, Japan, the tropics, and rare among African Americans. The prevalence of gout not only in America but in other developed countries has, however, been rising in recent decades, possibly because of dietary and lifestyle changes, greater use of medications that cause hyperuricemia, and aging populations.

Gender and Age Differences

Among children, the levels of uric acid in both girls and boys are low, (on average 3 to 4 mg/dL). Except for rare inherited genetic disorders that cause hyperuricemia, gout in children is almost unheard of. In males, levels rise substantially at puberty, with the result that the level exceeds 7 mg/dL (considered to indicate hyperuricemia) in about 5% to 8% of American men. Gout typically strikes only after 20 to 40 years of persistent hyperuricemia, so men usually experience their first attack between the ages of 30 and 50 years old. Men over 40 years old account for about 90% of the population affected by gout. Less than 5% of patients with gout are female. The female hormone estrogen appears to facilitate uric acid excretion by the kidneys, so levels in women remain essentially stable until menopause, after which they approach male levels. Premenopausal women are thus much less likely than men of the same age to be hyperuricemic. Women are more likely to experience gout
between the ages of 50 and 70.

Family History

A fairly substantial proportion of patients with gout (10% to 20%) has a family history of the arthritic condition.

Other Risk Factors

Obesity. Researchers report a clear link between body weight and uric acid levels; obesity may be an especially important risk factor for gout in men. In one Japanese study, overweight people had between 2 and 3.4 times the incidence of hyperuricemia as those of normal or low weights.
Hypertension. Hypertension (high blood pressure) is found in 25% to 50% of patients with gout, but whether it causes hyperuricemia is uncertain.
Alcohol Use. Alcohol use is associated with gout and in one study, it was the only notable risk factor for women with gout.

HOW IS GOUT DIAGNOSED?

Standard diagnostic tools for gout may include a medical history and physical examination, a blood test for hyperuricemia, and urine sample. For a definitive diagnosis of gout, a sample of synovial fluid from the affected joint is required, which is examined for signs of the characteristic crystals. X-rays can provide helpful information in some cases.

Ruling Out Other Disorders

As part of the diagnostic process other disorders that resemble gout symptoms or cause hyperuricemia should be ruled out. In general, it is easy to distinguish acute gout that occurs in one joint from other arthritic conditions; the two disorders that may confuse this diagnosis are pseudogout and septic arthritis, a potentially life-threatening condition. Chronic gout can often resemble rheumatoid arthritis.
Pseudogout. Pseudogout is a condition most likely to be confused with gout. It is caused by deposits of calcium pyrophosphate dihydrate crystals in and around the joints. Though pseudogout resembles gout in some ways, the first attack typically strikes the knee rather than the joint of the big toe, and at least two-thirds of cases affects more than one joint. The symptoms of pseudogout also appear more slowly than those of gout, taking days rather than hours to develop. In addition pseudogout is more likely to occur in the autumn while gout