Interested in gout

Has anyone tried herbal treatment for gout? I'm willing to try
anything because the colgout just make me sick.Zyloprem worked well
but I developed an allergic reaction to them. Rod

Hello everyone I'm sitting at home today because of another gout
attack. Don't you just hate them? I hope apples don't bring on gout
as I love them. Don't you hate taking Colgout? they make me feel as
sick as a dog.

Hi all!
It appears on the surface of things that apples actually are
partially to blame for the intensity of my husband's gout flare up.
He stopped eating them the day I found that one place that listed
apples as bad for gout and within a couple days was experiencing some
small relief. (still don't understand that--everything else says
apples are GREAT)
The better news is that his doctor started him on the colchicine-
allopurinol regimen. The colchicine was MIRACULOUS! He has taken 3
so far and all of his symptoms are gone. Yayyyyy!!! 2+ months
without pain relief has been a nightmare.
steve, hope your meds kick in soon to offer pain relief!
Amanda

I have put this site up before http://www.pumpa.co.uk/pages/diet.htm It may be of interest to new suscribers to this reflector.

I sure hope it helps at least one person. I have had great satisfaction from the input into this group over the last couple of years and anything that comes my way that will help gout sufferers I will be only too happy to pass on.

Best of luck to all............BB

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I just read a list of no-no foods and apples were on it. Is there
anything to that, because my husband eats A LOT (!!!) of apples? It
would certainly make sense in context of the length of time this
attack is lasting and how many apples he's eating a day.
Has anyone else heard of this? I tried to cross reference my
research of foods and only found the apple thing in one place. What
about other fruits? He also eats a lot of pears and grapefruit.
Thanks!
Amanda

According to my system "
Member p-k@... has JOINED the list efdsstalk."
Steve Harris - Net Services - Email Help Line systems
http://www.netservs.com/helpmail/

Amanda---well, the picture doesn't need to be looking nearly as gloomy as
you're seeing it. First, no harm at all in taking cranberry juice. All
this does is help relieve kidneys or residual soreness, if they were sore to
start with (sometimes gout DOES cause them to be somewhat sore). The biggie
is to take allopurinol every day from now on. This is simply a super great
control med, and will help minimize frequency and severity of attacks. In
many gouties, it cuts out attacks almost completely. It won't hurt to
start taking allopurinol right away, even in the middle of an attack.
However, it may not help the attack your hubby is now having.
Now, comes pain control. Indo does work for most. I use just plain old
non-aspirin caps. DON"T use aspirin, as the acid base in it fights with the
uric acid and makes the combined effect of the two together worse.
Your husband needs to go through a trial and error thing to find out if any
particular food or drink is a trigger to gout attacks. As you will see by
reading the personal accounts that come across this reflector, there are a
number of different things that gouties are and are/not tolerant of. In my
case, I can swill booze, and eat everything but liver. Liver gives me a
moon shot.

Hello!
My husband was diagnosed with gout several years ago, but luckily
has only has a couple of severe attacks. HOWEVER, now we are going
on week 8 of a major toe joint bout. Then the toe is feeling
better....next day (literally!) his opposite ball of the foot is
swollen and quite painful.
I want desperately to help him, but it feels futile. He was taking
Naprosyn (sorry about the spellings) and now is taking indomethacin
with very small success. I went and bought some cranberry caplets to
see if that helps "clear his system" but figure I'm wishfully
thinking.
Please, if anyone has any advice or coping devices for these attacks
I will be forever grateful. I can tell that this thing is wearing on
him emotionally. He likes to hike and jog and well....you know what
happens when these come on....nothing. Thanks!! I'm so happy I found
a place to address this!!!!!
Amanda

For Steve: yep, you'll find, over time, that you can have gout in all
joints from feet to lower back. Don't doubt but what the allopurinol will
help out, over time. Whatever is going on, it would probably be worse
without the control med.

This is some advice that I emailed to Mark earlier. It works well for me BUT may not be the answer for every body.

I have been a chronic gout sufferer for 38 of my 63 years but have only had 2 mild attacks since March of this year

I think that though Colchicine are good they are not enough to keep your
gout at bay. From personal experience I have found that 50mg of Allipurinol
daily to start off and then slowly building up to 500mg will work. But you
must continue with the Colchicine at the same time until you have got your
system used to the Allipurinol. Ask your doctor about this method as I'm not
a doctor just a long time sufferer. Here's how I do it,
I take 500mg Allipurinol/day every day, When I have an attack of gout I drop
the Allipurinol to 50mg/day and take 2 x 25mg Indomethacin three times/day
and 1 x 0.5mg of Colchicine three times/day, If the Colchicine gives
diarrhea drop back to twice a day or if still getting diarrhea drop to
1/day. When the Gout has abated slowly ease up on the Indomethicin by
dropping back to 1 x 25mg three times/day and then to twice/day then to
1/day until you don't need it at all, the same applies to the Colchicine but
keep going with the Allipurinol and slowly build up from 50mg to
500mg/day.If you feel a slight twinge of Gout coming on go to 2 x 25mg
Indomethicin three times/day until it subsides. This may not work for
everybody but it does for me. Also I drink lots of Cranberry juice and have
had good results with this.
Best of luck............BB

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I've been on allopurinol for about 6 weeks now and it's certainly
reduced the pain in my feet a *lot*.
However, I seem to have "roving arthritis". I've had each of the
following for a few days each.
- Left Knee pain
- Right Knee pain
- One knuckle swell up
- Upper ankle pain
- Wrist pain
- Another finger painful - no swelling
Anyone know what's going on?
Thanks
Steve

For Anne Marie: I'm a 60 yr old guy who has the same symptoms. I have gout
everywhere -- big toes, ankles, knees, hips, lower back, and the achilles
tendon and calves.
It is said that people with gout get a break in frequency and intensity of
attacks between the ages of 45 and 60. This is what happened to me. At age
59.5, it returned with a vengeance. For the first time, I started taking
allopurinol. The allopurinol has almost completely stopped the attacks,
regardless of boozing or woofing down whatever I want. Maybe Bob ought to
try the allopurinol route. No bad side effects -- so far.

My husband Bob has gone from bouts of gout to chronic, traveling
gout. He has it everyday, all day in different joints and even in his
calf and achilles tendon. He is on prednisone but it is not helping.
Is this common? I thought you would get an attack here and there
with some relief in between. He is on a purine free diet so I don't
know what else we can do. Anyone else out there with chronic gout??
Thanks and look forward to hearing from you.
Annmarie

Dear Gout group Members,

I have just joined the group in hopes of learning more about Pseudogout. Does anyone in the group suffer from this disorder?

I would love to share information.

I would like to search the archives for the gout group can anyone tell me how to do that?

Sincerely, Carol Clapshaw

Everyone who has his/her mail-account with GMX has been asked to sign the
condolences book and many have done so already. When everyone who wanted to
has signed it will be handed over to the American Embassy in Berlin,
Germany, where many people have already laid down flowers and left notes of
condolence. Here's what I wrote; I thought I'd share it with those who
can't read in the condolences book:

MSG is monosodium glutimate. It is used as a
preservative in many frozen foods, and is also
sometimes found in the packaged sandwich meats (i.e.,
processed turkey slices, salami, bologna, etc.).
Sodium nitrate is another preservative, often used in
frozen foods (i.e., "t.v. dinners" as we call them in
the U.S.), and is often found in packaged sandwich
meats (esp. in turkey slices, processed, and bologna).
You need to read the ingredients of anything you buy
that is not fresh. I think MOST canned foods, esp.
vegetables, are okay. It's mostly just in the
processed sandwich meat slices and the frozen foods
(even in fish sticks!) that these two ingredients are
found.
Hope that helps clear up the confusion for you. If
not, feel free to ask me more.
--DianeP

Yes, the extra weight must be lost very slowly, or it
will bring on a gout attack. I lost weight at a rate
of only a couple pounds a month, and it brought on no
new gout attacks. I have read that if you lose weight
too fast, it will bring on gout attacks. So the
secret is to lose it but very very slowly.
--DianeP

Hi there,
I've been diagnosed with gout about twelve years ago but it seemed to have
been an isolated incident. But really the illness was dormant during the
past years and flared up again this year. I had the first attack in May,
when I was away on holiday and I never went to see a doctor then. It was in
my left hip. About three or four weeks ago the second attack, this time in
my toe. I went to see a doctor and was told that the gout won't go dormant
again now. I got ibuprofen to bring the pain down and was told I could also
have diclofenac (which I can't stand because it makes me nauseatous all the
time).
Now I've been looking for information on gout, either leaflets or books.
Not only about food - I did get myself a copy of a book telling about
purines etc - but also what kind of sports may or may not be good and if
there are things I can do additionally to avoid another attack or help it
heal better, like heat treatment or something.
I didn't find anything at all.
Oh, I'm just 32 and the doctor seems to think that I was born with gout. I
do know I have a slight metabolic disorder like my mother did before me,
and I was born with that, too.
Any ideas anyone?
Brita

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
gout group:
What is the top cure of gout
o Cochycin
o Cherry
o The juice
o cranberry
o the juice
o Eucalyptus
o Thoughts
o Massage
o Aromatherapy
o Other
To vote, please visit the following web page:

Dear Barry,
Just to say my doctor asked me to wait until free of gout for a couple
of weeks, then start on my 100 mg Allopurinol at one a day.
Apparently, starting on Allopurinol can precipitate an attack of gout.
After first month I will increase to 200 mg Allopurinol per day for a
month.
Disappointed to hear you can still get gout even on 500 mg Allopurinol
per day. Evidently not the cure-all I was hoping for.
I am only recently discovering that Colchicine only really works
during the first 12 or 24 hours. Thereafter it seems to have little
or no effect.
I wouldn't know where to get cranberry, or cherry juice, in the UK.
Regards,
Mark
I think that though Colchicine are good they are not enough to
keep your gout at bay. From personal experience I have found that
50mg of Allipurinol daily to start off and then slowly building
up to 500mg will work. But you must continue with the Colchicine
at the same time until you have got your system used to the
Allipurinol. Ask your doctor about this method as I'm not a
doctor just a long time sufferer. Here's how I do it, I take
500mg Allipurinol/day every day, When I have an attack of gout I
drop the Allipurinol to 50mg/day and take 2 x 25mg Indomethacin
three times/day and 1 x 0.5mg of Colchicine three times/day, If
the Colchicine gives diarrhea drop back to twice a day or if
still getting diarrhea drop to 1/day. When the Gout has abated
slowly ease up on the Indomethicin by dropping back to 1 x 25mg
three times/day and then to twice/day then to 1/day until you
don't need it at all, the same applies to the Colchicine but keep
going with the Allipurinol and slowly build up from 50mg to
500mg/day.If you feel a slight twige of Gout coming on go to 2 x
25mg Indomethicin three times/day until it subsides. This may
not work for everybody but it does for me. Also I drink lots of
Cranberry juice and have had good results with this.
Best of luck............BB

Dear group my father has gout and i am worried it will lead to heart
problems.Do cherries actually decrease uric acid? And can oils help.
please anything just give me more info.

Tomorrow and after blood tests, I visit the doctor in the UK. I just
can't take this any more.
Until now I have only ever taken Colchicine. It normally works, but
when it doesn't - the horror of it, I don't want to think of it.
Alcohol usually relieves the pain during an episode - to the point
that I can actually walk without hopping. This contradicts all
medical evidence and even evidence on this list. No logic.
During an episode - which may last five weeks before I can walk
without walking sticks - I live constantly between pain, bad pain, and
horrid pain. And it doesn't just go away. It doesn't go away at all.
You just suffer and put a brave face on. You daren't drink anything
but water. Eat nothing but bread and potatoes - maybe even butter if
you want to party.
I've kept a strict diet diary from February 2001, and I can't see any
correlation to my diet and when I "sense" I need to take one or more
Colchicine tablets. No logic.
Most recent episode, from which I'm still recovering from, even got
into my left hip and left elbow.
One just asks - why me? I don't think even the Spanish Inquisition
used gout. Maybe they saw it too severe - burning at the stake being
less cruel.
Mark

Wow!

I just want to thank you all very much for your sharing. It has been quite helpful. I can't wait to arm myself with all these great tools and information.

I look forward to learning more in this group and being able to inform others.

Thanks again,

Kate

HI, my name is Kate and I have joined the group to find out more about this debilitating illness. With in the past year in a half my husband has been getting gout quite often (Ankles, wrist, toe...sometimes he will have two affected areas at the same time). Especially in the last few months. We went online and found that we need to alter his diet and remove the red meats, beans and other offending foods.

I guess the questions I have are why does this happen. It seems to me that there's some organ in the body that's not functioning well enough to get rid of the acid. And what's the relationship with tendonitis. If there's a more informative web page that someone can recommend, that would be wonderful. In March we will be having a baby and he needs to be ready for action!

I also have a specific question. I know that it suggests that you eliminate beer from your diet but what about Jack Daniels? That's his favorite drink...

With Delight,

Kate

This file (australia.doc.bat) is infected with a virus: I-Worm.Sircam.C
If you downloaded it, DO NOT OPEN it and run an anti-viral tool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's a description I found on the internet:
Jul 23 - Due to the increase in samples, the risk assessment for
W32/SirCam@MM has been updated to a HIGH risk. AVERT will be
releasing the 4149 DATs (the full set and incrementals) to include
scanning of files with the .LNK extension mentioned below.
VirusScan TC and VirusScan 4.51 users can take advantage of this if
they are using the default extension list.
The 4149 DATs are now available. Please use the update -
http://www.mcafeeb2b.com/naicommon/download/dats/find.asp
All other users must update the extension list as noted below or
SCAN ALL FILES.
Jul 22 For detection of W32/SirCam@MM, the LNK and PIF
extensions need to be present on the extension list or SCAN
ALL FILES must be chosen.
This mass-mailing virus attempts to send itself and local documents
to all users found in the Windows Address Book and email addresses
found in temporary Internet cached files (web browser cache).
It may be received in an email message containing the following
information:
Subject: [filename (random)]
Body: Hi! How are you?
I send you this file in order to have your advice
or I hope you can help me with this file that I send
or I hope you like the file that I sendo you
or This is the file with the information that you ask for
See you later. Thanks
--- the same message may be received in Spanish ---
Hola como estas ?
Te mando este archivo para que me des tu punto de vista
or Espero me puedas ayudar con el archivo que te mando
or Espero te guste este archivo que te mando
or Este es el archivo con la información que me pediste
Nos vemos pronto, gracias.
--- end message ---
Attached will be a document with a double extension (the filename
varies). The first extension will be the file type which was prepended
by the virus. When run, the document will be saved to the
C:\RECYCLED folder and then opened while the virus copies itself to
C:\RECYCLED\SirC32.exe folder to conceal its presence and creates
the following registry key value to load itself whenever .EXE files are
executed:
HKCR\exefile\shell\open\command
\Default="C:\recycled\SirC32.exe" "%1" %*
As the RECYCLE BIN is often on the exclusion list, check your
settings to insure that this directory IS being scanned.
It also copies itself to the WINDOWS SYSTEM directory as
SCam32.exe and creates the following registry key value to load itself
automatically:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\
RunServices\Driver32=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SCam32.exe
A list of .GIF, .JPG, .JPEG, .MPEG, .MOV, .MPG, .PDF, .PNG,
.PS, and .ZIP files in the MY DOCUMENTS folder is saved to the file
SCD.DLL (the 2nd character of the name appears to be random) in
the SYSTEM directory. Email addresses are gathered from the
Windows Address Book and temporary Internet cached pages and
saved to the file SCD1.DLL (the 2nd and 3rd character of the name
appears to be random) in the SYSTEM directory.
The worm prepends a copy of the files that are named in the
SCD.DLL file and attaches this copy to the email messages that it
sends via a built in for communicating directly with a SMTP server,
using one of the following extensions: .BAT, .COM, .EXE, .LNK, .PIF.
This results in attachment names having double-extensions.
The program creates a registry key to store variables for itself (such
as a run count, and SMTP information):
HKLM\Software\Sircam
The virus may also infect other systems by using open network
shares. On remote systems the file \windows\rundll32.exe might get
replaced with a viral copy. On those systems, it might also append
the autoexec.bat with the line: @win \recycled\sirc32.exe.
Aside from e-mail overloading, it might delete files on 16 October
and/or fill up harddisk space by adding text entries over & over again
to a sircam recycle bin file.

I wish to inform all you people that I did not send you the email with the virus in it, I received an email from Jan Lustig that had the virus and it went to everybody in my address book. I am really sorry that it happened, I have had to format my hard drive to get rid of it. I have received an email from Felix Valdez with an Internet site to get rid of it if your Computer has been infected by it.

Thanks a lot Felix.

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@...

I hope that this fixes it, I can't understand why any body would to do this thing.I do not blame Jan as she is in the same boat as me, But my virus detection never picked it up because it only upgrades every 30 days and this is new. I have changed the default settings on my virus scanner so that it updates every 3 days.

For any body that has not got virus protection there is a free download available at www.grisoft.com

Once again my apologies.

Regards.........BB

Hi! How are you?
I send you this file in order to have your advice
See you later. Thanks

Dear Jan Lustig,
I got the information from and old entry here at this
site and sent an email which was forwarded to Mr. Jensen who
then got in touch with me and sent me information and let me
join his trial .
He has found what he believes to be the problem with gout
sufferers as he also has gout and is a scientist he made
this formula it worked on his gout , so he is now having
test trials with people from all over the world to see if it
will indeed help others , we take the drops and tablets that
he sends us free of charge and we report how it is going
if we have pain where how bad, is it red and swollen and
hot or just a little .
It does work for me I still have had attacks but usually
only when it was found I needed to increase my dosage do to
he fact that I am over weight.
I can only say nothing bad has happened with my trying
his formula and I have not had as many or as bad attacks
sense I started until they changed the formula and I was not
getting enough then when I informed Mr. Jensen , He reread
my report and said I needed more drops it work.
I am a house wife and not good at explaining so you will
have to email Mr. Jensen for a better explanation.
Diane L.

Dear Ai Nguyen ,
Yes he is back from his trip.
Diane L.

Thanks for all the input from everyone. The doctors never seem to
want to listen-just give more drugs. Bob has gotten off of all beef
(a real killer for him)pork, and turkey. He does not drink.
Basically all he eats is chicken, fruits & veg and breads and dairy.I
guess we have to keep being in tune to what he has been eating when
he gets an attack. It just seems so never ending.
I checked out the PUMPA site-very interesting.
I email address Diane L. gave for Mr Jensen didn't work. Is there
another one. Is he a doctor or what?
thanks again,
annmarie

Once again we have to consider and contemplate the different ways that gout
attacks seem to be triggered, and the various remedies available. For gout
sufferers, be assured that there are no pat patterns that gout follows.
Different people react to a given food different ways, in terms of gout
producing results, or in terms of gout preventing action. And, they are all
valid. As a "for instance", I can eat any food except liver, and swill
booze without producing an attack. This is anethema for others. There is a
real diversity of cause and effect that you will see, over time, on this
reflector. And that is of great value, because the various books and tomes
seem to address the issue as if their view is the only true and correct one.
For those of you with other physical problems that make it impractical to
take any of the effective meds for gout attack prevention or pain relief,
natural treatments regulating your intake of food and drink may well be the
only way to get a handle, to any degree, on your gout.
It is with this in mind that I would encourage those with knowledge of the
various natural remedies to please give those on the reflector, for the
benefit of some newly arrived members. I am fortunately able to take meds,
so don't have much knowledge of the natural path treatments. But some of
our members may find this approach the only way of getting relief.
When you see some of the remedies that are put forth, you may have to "mix
and match", with trial and error before finding the ultimately best fix for
your gout problem.
Do be aware that, according to the books, and my own personal experience,
there is a window between the approximate ages of 45-60 that you may get a
gout reprieve in, with few attacks, and not severe in nature. Then, once
clear of this window on the uphill side, it jumps back on you with a
vengence. So, factor that into your analysis of gout events, and if you're
in that window, don't automatically decide the gout has gone away for good.
Tain't necessarily so, Charlie.

The problem with aspirin is that the acid base it is made from fights with
the uric acid deposits in inflammed joints, and makes the inflammation and
pain worse. That's why we shouldn't take aspirin to fight gout pain.
Tylenol or any non-aspirin based pain reliever will help knock pain down
during attacks. During a gout attack, the pain can be attacked from two
directions. One of those directions is quite simply to knock the pain down.
This lets the inflammation rage on to the end of its natural course. The
other is to try and reduce the inflammation. Reducing the inflammation
normally reduces the pain as the inflammation subsides.
Steroids are a good anti inflammatory, so some people think of them as pain
relievers, too. The problem with steroids is that they have undesired side
effects.
Aspirin is a terrific pain reliever and anti-inflammatory, but fights with
gout, in that specific case, to make the inflammation and pain worse.
Narcotics are great pain relievers. But, they too have bad side effects,
and will almost certainly become addictive if used for any length of time.
The thing to do is to take Tylenol type meds to knock the pain down, and any
of the non narcotic--non steroid type anti inflammatories to help fight the
inflammation, and get additional pain relief as an added benefit. I think
Indomethicin is one of the good anti inflammatories around. The only
problem with Indo is that can irritate the stomach on some people, but, if
taken with food, normally can be tolerated. It may well be worth several
days of carefully taking Indo in order to get the inflammation of an attack
knocked down.

about 2 years ago, bob got his first gout attack-in his toe. he
recovered only to get another, then one in his wrist and it has been
chronic since. the third attack in his wrist left him with only 50%
mobility. the bummer is he also has IGAN- a kidney disease he got
from a strep infection when he was 28 (he is 47). so, the
prednisone, allypurinal (sp?) etc. he has to take to get the gout
under control are all bad for the kidneys. I guess my question is,
do any of you also have kidney disease? the doctors are not much
help. the nephrologist only wants to monitor the kidneys, the
rheumatologist only with the gout. also, does the gout ever
subside? he has it in his wrist and/or foot constantly. they say
exercise and when he does-the foot flairs up. he tried swimming and
guess what-the wrist! it has been a nightmare. i would appreciate
hearing from you all.
annmarie

I would just stay away from fatty beefy/porky meats,
any meats with additives (luncheon meats, esp.), and
avoid legumes, at least for a while. I did while I
was having my one severe gout attack, and I guess it
did help it to finally clear up. I now have gone back
to eating chicken (white meat only) and fish (not
seafood though except for some tuna), and some legumes
(peanuts and peas in small amounts), and have had no
severe reoccurring gout attacks. I have only had a
few tiny, short gout attacks, after my bad 5 week long
attack of last summer, and those came only after
drinking binges or ingesting sodium nitrate or MSG.
(I still try to avoid like the plague any sodium
nitrate or MSG. That's what brings on attacks for me,
as well as drinking TOO much.)
--Diane

Here's my little spiel on gout. I'm 60 yrs old, and
have had gout since I was 26. Gout symptoms and causes are highly
individual. This reflector is a user friendly place, where, over time, you
will see this individuality of causes and symptoms brought out. Forget some
of the
literature and what the docs say. Different people will tell you different
things. Each is valid for their situation.
Basically, the painful attacks are caused by the old bod producing too much
uric acid. The crystals from this uric acid tend to get in between joint
linings in the toes, feet, knees, and hips (only one of those at a time),
and cause the inflammation. Just why the old bod goes into uric acid
overdrive is a good question, and one deserving of much more study.
I eat and drink voraciously. The only food I can't scarf down with abandon
is liver. Any kind of liver gives me a moon shot of gout attack. My
trigger is liver of any kind. Beer and liquor no problem for me. Let trial
and error, over time, be your best personal guide.
Now, there is a control med you can take which keeps the old bod from
overproducing uric acid (Probenecid???); I forget. Another good control
med helps the old bod eliminate overproduction of uric acid (allopurinol).
Both are good controls, and are reasonably kind to our systems. Some
pharmacological texts say that Allopuinol has a little bit of an ability to
keep the old bod from overproducing uric acid, as well as the primary
function of helping us eliminate too much uric acid. So, if you only want
to take one drug, I would recommend the Allopurinol.
OK, let's say you have an attack. The question being pain relief. Well,
there are basically three kinds of these. There are the narcotics, which I
don't like, but they are effective. Then there are the steroids. I don't
like these for their side effects, but they are effective. Then, there are
the non-steroidal kinds (NSAIDS). These are effective, but less so than the
first two categories. However, they are SAFE to take. Don't take aspirin,
whatever you do. The acid base in aspirin fights with the uric acid and
compounds your pain and problems. I use lots of xtra strength Tylenol.
Just
avoid aspirin based NSAIDS.
The anti-inflammatories, such as Indo-methacin, are good, too, and can
safely be taken for periods of several weeks without bad side effect, except
maybe a little tummy upset in some people. The anit-inflammatories reduct
inflammation in the joint under attack. Reduction of inflammation, in and
of itself, leads to pain reduction. So, the combo of NSAIDS and
anti-inflammatories should give really good relief from pain, and shorten
the attack.
You may get a somewhat attack free window between ages 45-60. Some
literature tells us this, and it happened in my case. Now, the stuff is
back with a vengeance, and I've had to hop back on the allopurinol.
And, yes, there is permanent joint damage, however slight, each time you
have an attack. The damage from repeat attacks in the same joint is
cumulative, and will result in joint enlargement, over time.
And yes, you can have attacks in your arch and heel areas. Don't ask me to
explain how, but that's where several of mine were before the Allopurinol
kicked in.
Ron B

Hi all,
I've just learned I have gout. Not happy news - but at least it
explains why my toe hurts like the dickens and has swollen up like an
eggplant!
I've got the fancy-dancy anti-flammatory prescription
(ahhhhhh....sweet, sweet relief!) and been warned off coffee, tea,
alcohol and high purine foods (red meat, seafood, legumes, peanuts,
etc.) I'm drinking scads of water too. Doc seems to think that this
will be an isolated incident and that I may never have another attack
(then again, I might).
He also says to stop eating meat and legumes. Permanently if I can
manage it - but definitely while I'm having an acute attack.
So here's my question. No meat AND no legumes?! No peas, no beans,
no peanuts or peanut products? Is this guy out to lunch or did I
just hear wrong?
The way I figure it, if you eliminate all meats, PLUS all legumes and
beans (soybeans being a legume, that would exclude tofu) I can't
think of any other sources of protien. (eggs?)
Is one meant to starve off an acute attack of gout? Rely entirely on
carbohydrates? I'm not sure I got the whole story. Any advice would
be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Annie

Hi I recently found out that I have Gout, but was sent away with only
a photocopied sheet of things to avoid eating which was very sketchy -
any advice on diet and recipes would be great ...
I am a musician - Drums, Piano and Guitar; my right knee and elbow
are constantly sore - I have never had Gout so bad that I am unable
to walk or experienced real bad pain - but it is such that I am no
longer able to play Drums - but recently I have started to experience
pain in my left hand index finger, I am hoping that I can find away
to releave what is happening in my hand and all over my body for that
matter, anyone with any sucess stories - I really want to continue
being a musician PLEASE HELP !!!
Paul

I was told that Advil is hard on the stomach too, and
to only take a double dose (four) with a meal (not
just a snack), and even that for no longer of a period
than truly necessary. Yes, and aspirin is supposedly
"hard on the stomach" too. I guess all pain relievers
and NSAIDS have their side effects and downsides,
unfortunately. Indomethacin taken for more than just
a day can give me diarreah and a "spaciness" feeling.
But for just that one day, the only side effect I had
from it was a very very mild spaciness feeling. And
perhaps that was just me. (Ha!)
--Diane

Yeah, I think I nipped it right in the bud by taking
those 3 Indos (spaced out over a day, with meals) as
soon as I noticed the very first signs of the attack.
Last summer, I had a gout attack that lasted five
weeks because I didn't get prescribed Indo until 3
weeks into the attack! I had been treating it up
until then with double doses of Advil, which didn't
seem to effect it much at all.
Yes, I too have heard it's bad for you to take more
than 4 Tylenol's a day. However, I rarely take
Tylenol anyhow as it seems to effect me not at all
(i.e., never makes the pain/swelling go away in the
least).
--Diane
--- Martin Lambert <Martin@...

I have taken allopurinol for ten years and stopped taking
it in March, my doctor said it was fine if I wanted to just
watch my diet. I have not had to take any indo and have had
not one bit of gout so far but I do take Tyenol Arthiritis
every night and sometimes in the morning as I also have
regular arthitis and spinal degenerative disease.
I say it is worth taking a chance and doing without
allopurinol as long as you keep indomethacin handy just in
case of an attach.
If in doubt ask your Doc. to be sure it is all right for
You first.
Diane Landrith

I am changing my email address, and need to know how to get hold of a human
to assist me, as I can't find the necessary automated process to do it. Can
anyone tell me how to find a human op for this reflector?

It's been said that once we start taking allapurinol, we should keep on
taking it. What happens if you've been taking it for several years and then
quit???

Have any of you tried the Tylenol Arthritis Pain reliever
for your gout .I have been taking it once or twice a day
and have not had a gout attack in a month and have been
eating everything that usually gives me an attack.
I would like to know if any of you have tried it.
Diane

I'm not sure the gout attack is actually in a bone. I just know that I have
had several painful, gout-like attacks on the backside of my heel bone. It
may be that it is a ligament or tendon close to the bone. The only place I
get swelling is when the attack is in a joint. Otherwise, there is just
pain and a hot spot. I also have the heat when the attack is in a joint.
Those little reascals literally glow red.

Bob--I am starting to conclude we can have gout attacks
in just about any spot where there is a bone. I get a
hot spot which is very painful on the front of one of
my knee caps--not in the knee joint, but on the front
of the cap. I also have had several attacks lately on
the back of one of my heels in the Achilles tendon area-
-not in a joint.

I haven't had an attack for quite some time (knock wood).
Suddenly I have a bit of swelling and some slight pain in a spot on my
right foot just above my arch and in front of my ankle (I used to get
heavy duty gout in that foot's large toe).
Not a big problem (yet) because it's location does not interfere with
running or walking and the discomfort is relatively mild.
But since there is seemingly no joint in that location, I wonder if it is
indeed gout?
Any ideas?
Many thanks!

Have you been eating too much, or any, sodium nitrate
or MSG? That might account for the increase of
occurrence in your attacks. That's what does it for
me, as well as too much alcohol. I can drink no more
than a couple shots of Scotch a week, if I want to
stay gout-attack free (I have found).
--Diane

Croeso!
I'll introduce myself.
I'm 34, have had gout for around 6 or 7 years and although very painful, has
occurred infrequently enough (say 3 or 4 times a year in bad form) that I've
only needed Voltarol (Diclofenac Sodium) and more lately Indomethacin to treat
it as NSAIDs.
However.....
Over the last 12 months it's started happening more regularly, more painfully
and for longer periods of time than up to now. Having had virtually a
continuous bout of gout from late December 2000 till now, I went back to my
Doctor. The NSAID does their job and I continue to take them for a few days
after the pain completely disappears as I've always done. Now some 48-72 hours
later, my attack is back with a vengeance. I'd discussed with my Doctor where I
go from here and a blood test was taken that showed, as was expected, a very
high level of uric acid in my blood. So I've now joined the Allopurinol club -
from last Friday - and will have to get used to taking this each day from now
on.
I count myself lucky though that painful as Gout can be, it's the worst health
or medical problem I've had - and that makes me luckier than some. So I have to
count my blessings.
regards
Andrew Johnson
South Wales

Been having computer probs in addition to gout, so just trying to see if
this message would post on the reflector as a test.

Questions:
What is the name of one or two medications which help keep the body from
overproducing uric acid?
Allopurinol helps us get rid of uric acid, right?

Dear all,
A scientist in France seems to have succeeded in creating a cure for
gout.
He started his research a few years ago, as his severe gout-attacks
(knee) became unbearable, and a life on diets, allopurinol and drugs
not acceptable.
Now he has been free from attacks for several months, back on a
normal diet, no drugs, only by the help of this new invention, which
is an all natural liquid composition.
Many of you may find this unbelievable, and that's the problem.
To have the product tested thoroughly, he shall need as many
volunteers as possible, with the biggest diversity of group possible
(age, gender, geographical location etc). Untill now only 15 people
are participating, (all free of symptoms within 10 days) but that's
too little.
All test material is free.
If you are interested in this, or maybe know someone who is, pls
forward your e-mail address to me at hi@..., and I'll make the
contact.
Best regards,
sincerely,
Henrik Indahl

Well, gout does in fact effect different people in different ways. I guzzle
beer and liquor, and eat everything but liver and shell fish without any
problem. Liver and shell fish give me a moon shot with my gout. Go
figure....

XG--check this web-site out: http://www.pumpa.co.uk/index2.htm . As
someone mentioned, minimizing purine intake in foods is one way of
preventing the overproduction of uric acid in the body. This is the best
purine info web-site I've run across so far. Someone on this reflector
posted it to the subscribers awhile back.

XG, as Eric B. mentions, some of us find cherry juice effective (or
cherries if you can get them) in warding off attacks. I believe they
have helped me, & certainly haven't hurt. I also take the herbal
preparation he mentions, called "Goutcure. which is available through

rb, Eric, Brenda and everybody on the list,
Thanks for all the information you gave to me. I really felt that
this is a wonderful wonderful group.
I have translated every message I received into Chinese, and sent
them back to my father. Also, I ordered Goutcure, hope it will help
my fahter to control the attacks. I will keep you informed about this
herbal remedy.
Brenda, thanks for the reminder about soybeans. we never know that
soybean can be a trigger to gout attack. Soybean sauce is kind of
essential flavour in CHinese cooking. I just called my father, and
asked him to stop using soybean sauce.
all my best.
XG

Xiaogang:
I don't know how available (or costly) prescription drugs
are in your dad's neck of the woods, but he should check
with his doctor about allopurinol (as a daily regimen to
fend off attacks), as well as indomethacin and/or vicodin
(for pain during attacks).
Make sure he's drinking lots of water, too -- especially
during attacks. It helps flush out the uric acid and will
keep his kidneys flowing freely (uric acid can cause
kidney stone formation as well as gout). Note: If he
drinks alcohol, be very careful with the vicodin (i.e.
don't do both at the same time -- it's hell on the liver).
I never had any luck with cherry or cranberry juice, but
some folks swear by them. There's also an herbal

Hi, Everybody on the list,
My name is Xiaogang, I have tried to find some information from internet
to help my father. My father is suffering from the gout. He took some
medicine (COLCHICINE), but the medicine has some side effect to his
kidney. Normally, he has 3-4 times gout attack every year, but things
getting worse now, he told me he had 3 attacks last month. I am just
wondering if there are some medicine or new treatment can help my
father reduce the pain and no side effect to his kidney. Any help will be
appriciated.
Thanks for your time reading this message. I am looking forward to
hearing from you.
XG

A couple of things. You don't say how old he is. There seems to be a
window where gout sort of goes into recession roughly between 45-60 yrs age.
I'm now 60, and just came out of that Window. The attacks seem to come more
often now than they did when I was younger than 45. The reason I mention
this is to let you know that this part of the situation may be entirely
normal. There is literature that addresses this point.
Now, as to the pain. Don't let anyone take aspirin, or aspirin based meds
for gout pain relief. The reason is that the acid in aspirin fights with
uric acid (which causes the crystals that cause the pain and inflammation)
and compounds the problem. I use extra strength Tylenol excusively for gout
pain relief. It gives me about the most relief I can get from anything
non-narcotic and/or non-steroid. By using Tylenol, I can manage. I don't
want to take narcotic based meds, or steroids. Certain steroids may be OK.
Others are too strong, and can damage bone marrow and have other bad side
effects.
I will not take Colchicine. The doc tried it on the first attack I had, and
I won't use it again. It made me very ill, and didn't abort the attack.
Some people can use Colchicine, and find it effective. Don't know why the
Colchicine would effect the kidneys.
There is often kidney pain associated with gout attacks as the body
eliminates the huge overproduction of uric acid. Cranberry juice is a good
relief for these discomforts. The cranberry juice only makes the kidneys
feel better---it doesn't help the gout pain.

Felix---I will venture forth some possibilities on the gout and sunlight
thing. Getting sunlight pulls moisture from the body, and results in a
dehydrating process, however slight.
Diuretics also tend to deplete water from the body. I am told that this is
one of the reasons that use of diuretics by gouties may increase their
chances of gout attacks and/or inflammation of joints from uric acid
deposits.
So, it's possible sunlight essentially acts in a similar manner to diurtics
in gout. Just a thought.

Hi,
I am Felix, 41 years Old, writing from Lima, Peru. I am interested in
knowing if theres is a connection between exposure to sunlight and the
recurrence of an attack.
I had a gout attack at the end of december, and after a week I went to the
beach for a few hours, and the next day I the sypmtoms came back. I
attributed the incident to the fact that I was eating avocado and yeast
conaining bread (which I stopped after reading the e-mail with the
pumpa.com.uk address showing purine contents).
I have been consuming almost no foods with purines, and have not had a drop
of alcohol in the past month. I had been feeling OK, but last week I went
back to the beach and had a few hours of sunlight exposure, and on the next
day I started having a little inflamation.
Does anybody have any references of the effects of sunlight exposure to
recurrence of a gout attack?
Thanks for your help.
Felix Valdez

Has anyone ever heard of vitamin supplements triggering
an attack?
I've been taking a lot of care not to eat any trigger foods
recently (I'm also drinking lots of water and religiously
sticking to my allopurinol scrip). The only dietary change
has been an increase in vitamins to supplement the lack
of protein and trace minerals, etc. that many of the
aforementioned trigger foods provided me in the past.
Sure enough, the ankle blew up like a weather balloon
today, and I'm hobbled like a one-legged mule. Can't
understand it for the life of me. Follow the rules, lose
the game... any ideas?
Hope everyone else is pain-free.
-Eric

Has any one heard of or tried Pycnogenol? A letter in Wellness Web said it had done wonders for gout in one of their relatives.

I checked it out on the Net and Pycnogenol was first discovered by a French Prof. It is a derivative from a special kind of Pine bark and has very good write ups as an antioxidant. It is also made in America from grape stems.It's supposed to be good for a lot of maladies. Of course it's not available in Australia (And neither is goutcure) I was just wondering if any one knew anything?

If any body would like to have a look at it's "good fors" go to http://www.pycno.com/ Regards BB

Barry--
your info on cranberry juice is interesting. I haven't studied it or done
any research, but had always been told that the cranberry juice thing was
more to alleviate kidney pain and discomfort, more than anything else. Some
gouties seem to get kidney pains when the old uric acid pump is churning it
out, and supposedly the cranberry juice helps relieve that.
It would be interesting to hear if others feel their gout pain may be helped
by drinking cranberry juice. I may start glugging down gallons of it myself
if that's the case.

This site tells you that Tea and Coffee are on the OK list http://www.healthsquare.com/mc/fgmc2005.htm

O.K., I know I've only been on the list for 10 minutes and its
already my third post, but this one's been bugging me for years so
please bear with me. Besides traffic looks a little light.
It has been part of my family's lore (gout on both mom and dad sides)
that iced tea causes gout. I have always wondered whether this is
true, and not my family's optimism that it must have been something
besides the T-bones and reefers (refried beans). On none of the
purine pseudo-content lists I have complained about in another post
have I seen any mention of iced tea. I see sometimes references to
avoid regular tea and coffee, apparently for the caffiene. But there
isn't any purine in tea is there? (damn those Nutrition Info
labels...they should list purine content!) And most of the iced tea
packages I've seen are caffiene free anyhow. So iced tea should
really be o.k., right?
Desperate for a way to jazz up my gallon of water a day...
Dusty
Riverside, CA

I retired from the mines in April 1999 after 45 years working underground and shifted to the southwest of Western Australia to enjoy my retirement on a little hobby farm. Since then I can not remember a week that I didn't have Gout until October 18th 2000 when I was told by another sufferer to try Cranberry Juice. I had heard of Cherry Juice being good for Gout and it not being available in Australia except in concentrated form I decided to give the Cranberry Juice a go (I'd try anything if I thought there was a hope). The thing is I have not had even a twinge since I started taking it (2 Litres/Day) but I also take 500mg of Allipurinol/Day but have been on the Allipurinol for the last 20 years and it does not seem to do much for me. So maybe it is the Cranberries keeping it at bay even though I had Alcahol and all the naughty bits over Christmas. Sorry to be so long winded but I thought it may help others even though every body reacts differently, What's good for one may
not be the same for others.

Regards BB

From reading through the archives, I know this subject has been
covered before, but not to my satisfaction.
I'm looking for a list of foods with their actual purine content. It
could be website, book, government study, anything. I've been all
over the web, and I've found a ton of websites that talk about purine
levels in food. But invariably they just have a short list of foods
high in purines, a short list of foods moderately high, and sometimes
another short list of foods low in purines.
Nowhere have I found a definitive list with actual numbers.
One reason I'd like to see such a list is that I see conflicting
claims made on this mailing list, on the various "purine content"
lists on websites, and on testimonials to the Wellness Web message
board. For instance, sometimes I read that chocolate is good and
sometimes I read that its bad. Same for several other foods I'd like
to eat, and occasional still cheat with because of the uncertainty.
And nothing I've read until some of the previous messages here has
ever mentioned MSG and Sodium Nitrate.
Numbers don't lie. So how about it. Anybody know of a definitive,
exhaustive list of actual quantitative purine content in foods
somewhere?
Thanks for any help!
Dusty
Riverside, CA

Greetings!
I'm new to the list, thought an intro was in order. I'm 31, have had
gout since I was 20, severe cut-my-foot-off cripplers as well
as "twinges" that go away at the mere sight of Indocid. Recently,
however, it has become very persistent and severe.
I'm 6' 1" and about 305 lbs. Three months ago I was 359 lbs. My
doctors had always told me to lose weight to help my gout symptoms,
and I always wanted to do so for tons of other reasons as well. So I
signed up for the Optifast diet through my health plan, Kaiser
Permanente. Its a "medically" supervised liquid fast of only 800
calories per day.
Well, I'm proud that I've lost about 50 lbs. But almost since I
started the diet, my gout has been terrible. I didn't do my homework
correctly, because had I, I would have known that rapid weight loss
increases uric acid levels. I told the people who run the Optifast
program about my problem when I signed up, but no one (nurse
practitioner, nutritionist) mentioned any problems with gout from the
program.
On the diet program, they test your blood every week. My uric acid
was high and never came down, although all of my other chemistry and
blood test levels, as well as my blood pressure, came down into
normal ranges as I lost weight. But the uric acid stayed high, and
my gout continued to worsen. Finally, I complained to the RNP, and
she prescriped allopurinol.
Again, I wish I had done my own homework, because then I would have
learned what I know now...allopurinol makes existing gout attacks
worse. In this case, excruciatingly worse. I was on my cane for a
couple days. Then on crutches a couple days. Then in bed for nearly
a week peeing in a bottle because it was too painful to hobble into
the bathroom. And i developed that most feared of all gout
conditions: gout in both legs. When the pain finally subsided enough
for my poor wife to get me into the car, I went to a real doctor at
the urgent care center and she told me to immediately go off the
allopurinol, and prescribed colchicine.
I had used Colchicine before, with mixed results. It helped this
time, but the side effects came on quick and i had to give it up.
Since then, I have continued to use the indomethacin.
i have tapered off the diet prematurely to concentrate on getting my
gout under control. If I can get clear of the symptoms for a while
I'd like to try the allopurinol again.
Well, I have more to say but this post is already too long.
Dusty
Riverside, CA

Just a quick note to wish everyone on the list
a happy and pain-free holiday, and to find out
if anyone has experienced the formation of uric
acid-based kidney stones as a side effect of
their gout.
My right kidney has quite a few small ones, the
left is relatively stone-free (so far, anyway).
I've suffered from gout since my early 20s (I'm
38 now)-- about 4-5 attacks a year (2-3 of them
being what's classified as "severe").
Your thoughts and input are welcome.
--Eric

Hi, I'm new to the group. I've been taking allopurinol for the gout
for over 15 years with no attack of gout. Recently, I thought I'd
injured my ankle. My doctor says it's gout. Wouldn't the allopurinol
prevent this?

Well back to another round with gout. This time it has only been two weeks.
The last few times I have went in and got a very painful steroid shot and
within a few hours could get relief but this time since it is coming back
so soon I decided to try and tough it out. Another reason to tough it out
is that we are leaving for NZ for 25 days and won't have easy access to a
shot.
My question is, has anyone tried acupuncure? If so how did it work? I'm
about to try anything.
Have a Good One
Jack

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from Australia
Aaaaahhhh the rich food Ham,Turkey,Pork,Chicken and all the Alcahol
Don't you just look forward to gout in Janurary
Best Wishes........BB

Diane,
Thanks, I just recently bought bologne, something we haven't had in the
house for ages. Of course he ate it right down so I went out and got
another package. Guess its off limits now. He really isn't over weight as
he on a low cholostrol diet because of his heart problems. He reads all of
the email so he will read this post from you and maybe drop a few more pounds.
Thanks again
Lavada

Hi,
I sent off a post to just the list owner by mistake so you may get it
as well as this one.
We just joined this group. My husband has gout. He is getting it about
every 3 weeks now. We have pretty much traced it back to dieritics he
takes because of a heart condition. However after reading the back
posts on this list we will start watching his diet to see if we can
see a pattern. He looks the picture of health so we have been pretty
comfortable with his diet until now.
Usually he goes in for a styroid shot but is trying to tough it out
this time as it seems to come right back and we are in the process of
putting a trip to NZ together for Jan. So a couple of questions. He
soaks his foot in cold water. Does anyone find this helps? Also we
just got some flax seed that someone said helps. Has anyone used it?
He can't take anti-inflammatory meds as he has a mechanical heart
valve and is restricted from taking any over the counter drugs as well
as a lot of prescribed ones.
Nice to have a group. He felt better just reading some of your posts.
Lavada

Has anyone tried magnets for any of their joints? I talked to several
people who swear by them for their aching joints / arthritis.
I just started today on one of my ankles. I'll let you know if I
think there is an appreciable difference.
Scott

Goutcure Site http://goutcure.com/

Would be very interested to hear the results from those that have tried it as it is not available in Australia and with the American - Australian dollar exchange rate I am loathe to order it without hearing the results first

Regards BB

Hello and welcome!!

You asked about some of the ages of our illustrious members? I'm 42 y/o and was diagnosed when I was 17.

However, my rheumatologist says that I'm a rarity since I'm female and my gout started that early. Right now, my uric acid level is normal for the first time since I was diagnosed. He has me on Probenecid, Allopurinol, and Colchicine. I'm also 15 lbs lighter than I was 3 months ago. He told me that for every pound of weight a person loses, three pounds of pressure is relieved from the joints of the feet and knees.

So, my recommendation is, if you can afford to have your husband evaluated (or covered by medical insurance), take him to a Rheumatologist. They are especially trained to know about gout.

Good Luck,

Joyce

My perscription says take 50 mg2-3 times daily, with food.

Hi all! My name is Julia and I live in Denver. My hubby was recently
diagnosed with gout and I want to learn more about it. He's only 31
and is having to use a cane most of the time. It was originally his
left foot, now his right foot is getting painful. He's on Allopurinal
and I got an herbal mix off the net called Gout Cure. Any experience
with these?
I've been using Reiki on him for the last few days, since my first
Reiki attunement and he didn't need his cane today! Maybe this will
work well. I know it works great for my migraines and stuff.
Anyway, I'm new :)
Thanks!
Julia

Haven't heard of this application of low frequency ultrasound. Am
interested in hearing how it is supposed to do the work. I'll check around
and see if I can find out anything relating to this. Perhaps other
subscribers can do the same.

On this Link :
http://www.wellweb.com/INDEX/QGOUT.HTM#whatsnew
i found information about low frequensy ultrasound. It is claimed to
be able to relieve an acute attsck in minutes. Do any of you know
about this or even have had some experience with this threatment.

http://www.dietsite.com/alternativenutrition/Ailments/gout.htm

This site may be of interest to some of you ....I have just got over a bad attack of gout,I seem to have it continuously now that I have retired - but now the skin on my feet has gone all powdery especialy between my toes and on the arch of my foot, has anybody else had this problem

Regards to you all BB

While surfing the web I came upon this interesting article about night shades and gout

http://www.vegsource.com/mcdougall/messages/16685.html

Hi All!
Everyone probably thought that I'd never stick my two cents in again
but here I am again, just like a bad penny. :)
Thought I'd let everyone know that I've been recovering from a truck
wreck that occurred on 10/10. My partner got strangled on a drink
and lost control of the truck which ended up on it's left side in the
middle of I65 just north of Mobile, AL. I was asleep in the bunk.
Fortunately, my guardian angel was watching out for us, I got a bad
crack on the head (blacked both eyes), injured my right elbow, and
dislocated my left sacroilliac joint. Other than that, my partner,
who was wearing his seatbelt, just got his back bruised.
Anyway, it took a month but my gout flared in my right elbow. It
always seems that it does that after a joint injury. But, it's
better after doses of colchicine and medrol.
Hope everyone else is right as rain and doing well. I also wish
everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
Regards, Joyce

I don't think vertbrae or disc problems that produce intense pain go away
after a week or so without treatment----and then repeat later. Also, I've
had gout in feet, ankle, heel, knees. Over the years it has progressed
upward.

I've had two attacks in my lower back. Also several in both hips.

Has anyone heard of gout attacks in the spine?
A few weeks ago I hurt my back doing some abdominal exercises. I
had laid off a while and when I worked out again, I attempted a bit more
than usual. Seemed all right at the time but the next morning I found
that my existing sciatica was greatly worsened. It's been a real
inconvenience. Naturally, I assumed it was the exercise and over the
last few weeks it's been improving slowly. From what I've found on the
web, it should take around 6 weeks for it to get better by itself.
However, the other day I felt a pain in my left middle toe joint.
As a precaution I started colchicine a couple times a day and also an
anti-inflammatory drug, Clinoril. The middle toe has faded into
nothingness. It was no problem. But strangely and unexpectedly, at the
same time, I felt an improvement in my sciatica.
Now it's probably a coincidence, but I just wanted to explore the
idea. Anyone have any thoughts?
Edd

Check out this Gout remedy at http://woody64zz.tripod.com

We're still here, but thanks for asking.

Question: I've been wondering about the use of ice on gout swelling. (I know sometimes, as in the big toe, you can't even get an ice bag near the swelling) I get gout flare ups in both my knees fairly often. I wasn't sure about the use of ice to help swelling and pain. I thought I heard once that the coolness of the ice would only encourage the uric acid into forming crystals, thus worsening the attack.

Does anyone have any input on this?

Also, has anyone had any success in reducing / eliminating Tofi formations on their elbows? Surgery? Prolonged use of Allopurinol? Long term reduction in uric acid count?

Scott Rammacher
srammacher@...

The silence is deafening. Just checking to see if the reflector is still
here.

I haven't got time to be a gout victim! I've got too much to do.
I had my first gout attack when I was 40. In the 20 years since then, I have
had 17 attacks, most of them mild. The frequency has reduced over the years.
I am an active distance runner, racing 10 Ks, 10 miles and half marathons. I
enjoy running and I want to carry on enjoying it. So I decided to use every
weapon I know to get over this stealthy disease. The first weapon is
knowledge. I used every source to find out what was going wrong. I decided
to check out medication, diet, alcohol useage, fluid intake, food
suppliments, mental stress and repetetive joint trauma.
My weight is no problem as I am 6 feet tall and weigh about 147 to 150
pounds. Very skinny.
Enough for now - I'll discuss some of these items as we go.
Peter

Barry, I would like to thank you for actually posting something of
interest. I found your Web MD sight very informative. I was getting
EXTREMELY TIRED of all the "goutie" babble. I am recieving so many
useless emails I am concidering unsubscribing to the group. Ladies,
if you have nothing better to do than to corespond to each other in
self pity, please use your individual email addresses and spare the
rest of us.
I do appreciate the group and its sharing of "information", but it
has become such a "rag page" lately that it is more of a nuisance
than helpful. I know that I could unsubscribe, but I believe in its
potential. Thank you Barry.

http://my.webmd.com/content/dmk/dmk_article_5462152

Thought this Site may be of interest to newcomers to the Gout Club

Regards BB

Friends and fellow gouties:
What's the saying? "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no
luck at all," right?
Right.
As I mentioned in my last correspondence to the group,
I just recently got over a *very* long attack in which the
pain, stiffness and swelling moved to and fro between
my left ankle to my lower shin to my instep to my big toe
back to my ankle.
Finally, after obscene amounts of colchicine, Vioxx and
Vicodin, the pain subsided to a mere dull ache (a luxury
compared to a full-blown attack.,as most of you know),
and I was, at long last, able to not only walk, but to
actually spend some "active time" with my friends,
family and, most importantly, my two young kids.
Well, wouldn't you know it? After just a two-week respite,
I woke up last night in sheer agony -- my wicked old friend
gout now beating on my RIGHT instep like a rented bongo
drum. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry, but the
latter seems a little more appropriate (and a lot more likely).
Here's the real rub: I've followed my doctor's and rhuemy's
instructions to the *letter* -- plenty of water, daily allopurinol
(300 mg), low protein diet, very minimal alcohol (i.e. no more
than one or two drinks at a sitting), and *still* the curse
returns. Extremely frustrating.
In closing, please forgive the rant. I just needed to vent to
someone other than my angelic wife -- who, like so may
others with gouty spouses, must endure the whining and
nursemaiding 24 hours a day (I've often told her that she
suffers from "gout by association").
Thanks for listening.
--Eric
Who's taking the whole thing laying down (literally!)
PS I think the Gout action figure idea is hilarious.
Thanks for the laugh on what otherwise promises to
be a really rotten day.

Well Im not sure I believe the rhuematoligist I saw on Thurs, Again he tries
to tell me that because I am a woman and my uric acid levels are normal, plus
I have the problems in my fingers that it isnt gout. <sigh
might be psoriatic arthritis as I do have psoriasis on my arm that I only got
the last 6 months. I think It might be possible. But he didnt see my finger
when it was really bad for 6 weeks. And then he tries to tell me it was
probably an infection. Yea right! I am not having good luck with DRs. I am
getting new insurance soon and may be able to go see another dr. HMOs are no
good. Well I guess Ill have to wait till it happens again and then go in. And
hope3 I can get in soon enough so they can get a sample. In the meantime it
is still up in the air!
Rebecca

Thanks so very much for all of your thoughts on Indo and its side
effects. It is reassuring to "talk" with others. Joyce

Look what I found on Amazon.com:
"Gout Haters Cookbook - Recipes Lower In Purines"
by Jodi Schneiter
Book Description:
Gout Haters Cookbook, recipes lower in purines, lower
in fat. This cookbook features comprehensive lists of
higher, relatively high and lower purine foods.
Designed specifically for persons suffering from gout.
Our Price: $14.95

I'm reading in this list that many of you receive immediate help from
indomethacin. I've been taking it for a week, since the first
preindicators of my gout, and my ankle continues to swell. How long
should it take? I also seem to have side effects. I'm very sleepy,
kinda out of it and continue to have headaches. First, are these side
effects of the medication that any of you have? Second, if any of you
have side effects, what medication has worked? Joyce

I take only extra strength Tylenol, for reasons not related to my gout. DO
NOT take any aspirin based analgesic. The acid base in aspirin compounds
the effects of uric acid and intensifies your pain. Tylenol type analgesics
will give some pain relief and also help fight the inflammation. Some of
the other drugs mentioned such as colchicine and indomethacin seem to work
for some gouties, but not for all. They do have some unpleasant side
effects.

I used to not have any warning. The last 5 yrs or so, I get to feeling
slightly bad (tough to describe the feeling) just before an attack. Could
be your headache thing is a related symptom like my feeling rocky just prior
to attacks.

I guess I've generally had mild attacks. But in this current
attack, I find that walking on my right great toe doesn't seem to
aggravate it. Is this typical? or does walking on a sore toe generally
cause great pain and worsen the attack?
Edd

Do gout attacks (like in your foot) respond well to soaks in hot
water? Has any one tried that? Is it ever recommended? Does it
hasten healing?
Edd

Sorry. Just had to type out that cute little word
again! (I envision wood nymphs dancing amongst ferns,
somehow).
--Diane

Hear yee, hear yee!!!!
"The big thing I've learned from this list is
what a variety of experiences we gouties have, and
what a lack of understanding of the science
behind the disease there seems to be. I believe there
is much more that needs to come out concerning gout."
Also: "Gouties." Ha!
--Diane

Before each gout attack I have severe headaches. What is the
connection, if any? Does anyone else have this as a pre-symptom?
Joyce

The gout I've had over the years -- if that's what I've had --
hasn't shown most of the symptoms that gout is supposed to. I've had
relatively mild attacks with virtually no swelling or redness. Last May
I had an attack in my right great toe that felt different that what I'm
used to. Though still mild, there was a warmth and redness to the joint
that I've never seen before, so I asked my doctor for cholchicine. I
took 0.6 mgs twice a day for a couple days before the diarrhea kicked in
and the toe seemed to get better at that time.
Yesterday began a new attack. More warmth and redness than before.
So I began the cholchinice yesterday. two tabs. By this evening there
is still some warmth, redness, and soreness. No swelling particularly.
My question is, how long does this drug take to stop an attack? Are
we talking hours, minutes, or days? My pharmacist talked about 15
minutes, but time limit expired way back yesterday.
E

}}}Hey, do you suppose allergies have anything to do with it? Could
gouties be allergic to purines? Just a thought. Brenda{{{
A very good question. Well worthy of investigation.

Thanks, ProRec, for the advice.
My dr never mentioned Colchicine. I didn't find out about it until
I started reading the info. on the net. & most of it said that it
wasn't used much anymore, because of the bad side-effects. So I
thought Indo. had mostly replaced it. I certainly won't take Indo.
if
I don't HAVE to, or any more than I HAVE to! I don't like its
side-effects of nausea & dopeyness either! I am on a maintanance
dose
of 300 mg daily of Allopurinol, & the Indo. just during attacks. I
kinda hate to keep taking the allopurinol, because of possible damage
from it too, but am afraid NOT to take it too. Hence the interest in
diet, etc. Hope you're feeling well, Brenda

dr
to
had
no
fine.
I
Reumatologist
and

I don't have the URL handy, but that PUMPA site that someone on this list
told us about is one of the best I've seen insofar as a practical diet tool
is concerned. It tells the purine content of many of the normal foods we
eat. With that list, you can pick and chose what you think you might want
to cut out or include in diet.

Amen, Pro-Rec, on heading acute attacks off at the 1st twinges. NOW I
take Indocin immediately, & don't have to take many. When my Dr. 1st
perscribed it to me, I was in the middle of a classic attack, & he
told me "These will help the pain" Well I got so nauseated when I
took the 1st one, that when the pain subsided (combined with
prednisone) I decided not to take any more. When I went back to see
him again, he asked me if I'd taken all of them. I said "Oh, no, jsut
one, the pain wasn't bad enough after that to be worth the nausea."
He said they weren't just for pain, but were an anti-inflamatory!
Wish
he'd told me that at 1st. Now I know I need to take them with more
food, & immediately. Oh well, live & learn! So far he hasn't
scoffed
at my needing them. Brenda

to
be
former
doctor
it
to
like
Im
now
62

Yes, ProRec, I think diet is important too, much as I wish it wasn't.
I just wish the low-purine diets were more specific & less
conflicting. That's a pet peeve of mine. I even checked with the
professional dietician who consults with the nursing home where I
work
to see if she had a better diet to recommend. She checked & said "The
current opinion is that diets don't make much difference." I guess
I"m
lucky that my dr. isn't quite so current & gave me a diet, even if it
is rather vague. I would LIKE for diet not to matter, as I LOVE liver
& asparagus & mushrooms, & like spinach & sardines & oatmeal (esp.
cookies & cold cereal mixtures). But as you said, anything that
lowers my chances of uric acid crystals is important, & diet
doesn't have near the side effects of NSAIDS, prednisone, & the
regular gout meds. If I can reduce the need for taking those, I want
to. Besides, the diet says losing weight will help the gout too. Why
not, its supposed to help everything else! Sounds like good advice to
me. Brenda

primarily
in my
a
big
had
me

A listmember writes:
}}}My former
doctor told me that diet made no difference! I told him it did, in a big
way. He said all the literature indicated diet was of little importance. {{{
}}}I don't know how any doctor can make such a claim{{{
}}}Diet is
extremely important, at least to me.{{{
My experience is almost categorically opposite of this. I can hog down
almost anything with impunity---except liver. I can drink beer and hard
liquor without gout consequence. I do not doubt in any way your testimony
that food is a big factor in your gout attacks. We see these extremes
frequently in testimony here on the reflector.
Reading the posts on this reflector, I think we see there is a diversity of
gout trigger factors. Food/drink is one of those, in some cases, but not in
others. The big thing I've learned from this list is what a variety of
experiences we gouties have, and what a lack of understanding of the science
behind the disease there seems to be. I believe there is much more that
needs to come out concerning gout.
As a for instance, if we posit that the body overproducing uric acid results
in the painful attacks, we need an explanation then of what causes the body
to periodically crank up the uric acid overproduction. Stress? Maybe
situationally. Certain food/drinks? Maybe situationally. We now have
drugs which, in the main, can control gout causal factors. Can we someday
have drugs which can prevent the causal factors?
Then, there is a less obvious aspect of the gout thing, and that is whether
in fact the basic causal factor of the painful attacks is overproduction of
uric acid or not. A number of us (myself included) have normal levels of
uric acid, to the extent that blood sampling has been done, during attacks.
This gives rise to the possibility that the uric acid levels, in some
people, may peak rapidly and sharply prior to an attack, and therefore not
be present during it, having already done the damage, so to speak. We do
know that controlling the production of uric acid inhibits attacks, as does
working to eliminate uric acid overproduction. So, I think it is reasonable
to conclude that the uric acid is the culprit behind the attacks. It then
only remains to explain why there are high levels in some individuals during
their attacks, while uric acid levels are quite normal in others during an
attack.

I hope everyone won't mind a slightly off topic post here. Al Gore at least
says he wants to correct the problem of HMO's dictating our health.
Something to consider.